Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

[kuku]

There is no de escalation planned.

[Officer of Engineers]

Set up an Ice hockey rink. Give both sides a 1970s NHL rule book. Regimental teams. Whomever wins the championship gets to plant their trophy wherever they want for the year.

[Oracle]

Why can't the other three pick up these items

We can use barley to make beer, their beef will be awesome and what better to wash it down with their wine.

Carlsberg opened a factory in Bihar with an investment of $25 million, and Nitish was in agreement. Last election (2015), Nitish promised prohibition and garnered votes of rural women, and since then 1000s have died drinking illegal hooch. Carlsberg was frustrated, this is why foreign investors say that investment climate in India is not conducive to their interests, and I fully agree. Why would anyone invest money in a sinkhole.

You're expecting India to shed its restrictive investment laws? And beef? Wajib-ul-Qatl for Hindutva warriors.

Due to Covid cess, prices of liquor have increased. Imported whisky which used to get taxed at 80%, is now double the price. A bottle of Jameson was INR 2400, now it's INR 4000, in my place.

BJP garnered 30% votes of 80% Hindus. So, there's spot for another centre-right party. Let's form a pro-economy, pro-everything, agnostic centre-right political party pan-India and do what we expected the BJP to do, but it didn't. All should have graduate degree at the minimum, 0 criminal cases, religion should not be bar in attracting talented people. Chartered accountant MPs to oversee the economy, Doctor MPs to strategise health, Ex- Defense personnel MPs to manage Defence, and so on and so forth.

[kuku]

Set up an Ice hockey rink. Give both sides a 1970s NHL rule book. Regimental teams. Whomever wins the championship gets to plant their trophy wherever they want for the year.

They would need to finish one winter deployment, following which I think all sides involved in the conflict will have some clarity of though in negotiations.

[kuku]

Australian newspaper meanwhile making the next marvel science fiction movie script
PLA using a big microwave on IA

[Double Edge]

Good news. What did the CPC gain? Peace?

Found this report confusing and wondered what transpired for both to have agreed to the terms mentioned.

Turns out nothing has been agreed, she is talking about proposals !!!

Source for this report is from PTI


India, China on verge of reaching agreement to resolve border standoff in eastern Ladakh | PTI | Nov 11 2020

New Delhi, Nov 11 (PTI) India and China may be on the verge of a breakthrough in resolving the over six-month-long tense border standoff in eastern Ladakh with both sides broadly agreeing on a three-step process on disengagement of troops and withdrawal of weaponry from all major friction points in a time-bound manner, authoritative sources said on Wednesday

The broad contours of the proposal include removal of armoured personnel carriers within one day of inking an agreement, withdrawal of troops from specific areas on the north and south banks of the Pangong lake in eastern Ladakh and carrying out verification of the disengagement process by both the sides, they said

The specific proposals for the disengagement and restoration of the status quo ante as existed in April were finalised during the eighth round of high-level military talks between the Indian and Chinese armies in Chushul on November 6 on the Indian side of the Line of Actual Control(LAC)

The sources said both the Indian Army and the Chinese People's Liberation Army(PLA) are looking at sealing the pact in the next round of Corps Commander-level talks as the proposals were agreed to by the two sides

The ninth round of military talks are likely to take place in the next few days

Nearly 50,000 Indian Army troops are currently deployed in a high state of combat readiness in various mountainous locations in eastern Ladakh in sub-zero conditions as multiple rounds of talks between the two sides have not yielded concrete outcome to resolve the standoff

China has also deployed an equal number of troops, according to officials. The standoff between the two sides erupted in early May

As a first step, both sides will remove their tanks, artillery guns, armoured vehicles and large equipment from the friction points along the LAC to their rear bases within three days from inking the agreement, the sources said

Under the second step, the PLA will go back to Finger 8 areas from their current position of Finger 4 on the north bank of Pangong lake while the Indian troops would position themselves close to the Dhan Singh Thapa post, the sources said. The mountain spurs in the area are referred to as Fingers

It was broadly agreed to withdraw around 30 per cent of the troops every day for three days, they said

In the third step, it was agreed to complete the disengagement process in areas along the southern bank of Pangong lake like Rezang La, Mukhpari and Magar hill

Indian troops occupied a number of strategic heights in the Mukhpari, Rezang La and Magar hill areas around the southern bank of the Pangong lake, after the PLA soldiers attempted to intimidate them in the area on the intervening night of August 29 and 30

"These are all proposals. There is no agreement signed yet," said a high-level source

In the final phase of the disengagement process, both sides will carry out a detailed verification process following which normal patrolling is expected to resume, the sources said

It is learnt that the top military brass deliberated on the proposals for disengagement and de-escalation of tension in eastern Ladakh before the eighth round of Corps Commander talks with the PLA

The disengagement proposal in Finger areas will mean there will be no patrolling between Finger 4 and 8 areas till there is a resolution of the standoff. India used to patrol till Finger 8

Army chief general M M Naravane on Tuesday said he was hopeful that the Indian and Chinese militaries will be able to reach an agreement on disengagement and de-escalation of tension in eastern Ladakh

After the last round of military talks, both sides described the negotiations as candid, in-depth and constructive

They said it was agreed to earnestly implement the important consensus reached by the leaders of the two countries and ensure that the frontline troops exercise restraint and avoid misunderstanding and miscalculation

At the seventh round of talks too, both sides had agreed to maintain dialogue and communication through military and diplomatic channels to arrive at a mutually acceptable solution for disengagement "as early as possible"

India has all along been maintaining that the onus is on China to carry forward the process of disengagement and de-escalation at the friction points in the mountainous region

Following the sixth round of military talks, the two sides announced a slew of decisions including not to send more troops to the frontline, refrain from unilaterally changing the situation on the ground and avoid taking any actions that may further complicate matters

The sixth round of talks took place days after External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar and his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi reached a five-point agreement to resolve the row at a meeting in Moscow on September 10 on the sidelines of a Shanghai Cooperation Organisation(SCO) conclave

The pact included measures like quick disengagement of troops, avoiding action that could escalate tensions, adherence to all agreements and protocols on border management and steps to restore peace along the LAC.

Bolded bit is the most important line in the whole article.

[Double Edge]

Carlsberg opened a factory in Bihar with an investment of $25 million, and Nitish was in agreement. Last election (2015), Nitish promised prohibition and garnered votes of rural women, and since then 1000s have died drinking illegal hooch. Carlsberg was frustrated, this is why foreign investors say that investment climate in India is not conducive to their interests, and I fully agree. Why would anyone invest money in a sinkhole.

This is a problem agreed but where else will they get returns. Interest rates are close to zero in the west. Not so in India.

$25m is peanuts. Billions were lost in the early 2000s in the power sector. Still rankles some.

You're expecting India to shed its restrictive investment laws?

Yes, i do if we are to attract FDI. An they've raised ownership limits in a few sectors since.

And beef? Wajib-ul-Qatl for Hindutva warriors.

Cow slaughter laws have exactly zero to do with religion and everything to do with economics. True when they were brought into force in the 60s right up to the present day.

Course the hindutva nutjobs, liberals & commies don't want you to know this simple fact. They'd lose a major plank to muck rake then.

Since Indian cows are so good for milk and should be preserved for this purpose why then does this extend to Aussie cows or any other countries?

It doesn't. We export beef already. No rule says we cannot import.

Due to Covid cess, prices of liquor have increased. Imported whisky which used to get taxed at 80%, is now double the price. A bottle of Jameson was INR 2400, now it's INR 4000, in my place.

BJP garnered 30% votes of 80% Hindus. So, there's spot for another centre-right party. Let's form a pro-economy, pro-everything, agnostic centre-right political party pan-India and do what we expected the BJP to do, but it didn't. All should have graduate degree at the minimum, 0 criminal cases, religion should not be bar in attracting talented people. Chartered accountant MPs to oversee the economy, Doctor MPs to strategise health, Ex- Defense personnel MPs to manage Defence, and so on and so forth.

We're stuck with the present administration until 2024. We have to plod on until then.

Why are people going on about change.

Remember Ross Perot. What did he do ? that sucking sound of votes going to the left because the right got split.

That's how HW lost, Not because of a down economy but because of Perot.

It's also the reason the BJP lost in my state back in 2012 because Yeddy decided to start his own party and handed Congress a win.

Your idea is great but the sticking point is such people don't know how to win elections.

AIM's biggest slam on the BJP is they are only interested in winning elections.

it's not like it hasn't been tried before. Swatantra in the 60s and even AAP of late.

Notice how they booted out the intellectuals and decided to become just another party.

Subramaniam Swamy is trying the same thing with his Virat Hindustan Sangam. Your idea has traction out there for sure.

[Oracle]

Australian newspaper meanwhile making the next marvel science fiction movie script
PLA using a big microwave on IA

Microwave arms used by China at LAC? Fake news, asserts Army

[kuku]

Poor guys have to deny this sort of fake news. Such a waste of time, is this newspaper an Australian tabloid? or have the Chinese infiltrated the Australian media scene?

What would be the dynamic of the border during the winter, the lakes and rivers freeze over i assume.

Other than that what are the level of snow which pile up there? In my area they have to be very careful in patrolling during this time, the snow levels are very high and consistent, some people say that in Laddakh the snow is very limited due to the lack of moisture.

[Double Edge]

Such a waste of time, is this newspaper an Australian tabloid?

Curious part is the Australian veers right. That usually means China sceptic

or have the Chinese infiltrated the Australian media scene?

Infiltrated society enough to get them upset

What would be the dynamic of the border during the winter, the lakes and rivers freeze over i assume.

Other than that what are the level of snow which pile up there? In my area they have to be very careful in patrolling during this time, the snow levels are very high and consistent, some people say that in Laddakh the snow is very limited due to the lack of moisture.

Lakes freeze over but Ladakh is a desert so not a lot of snow there. The Karakoram pass is clear oddly enough even at sub zero.

[Double Edge]

India wants to decouple troop withdrawal from infrastructure. China wants to link it with infrastructure meaning they want to get rid of Indian infrastructure at the border. China's idea of status quo ante is they retain their infra advantage. We disagree.

The nature of warfare is changing from ground centric to air centric warfare. From a ground planners pov, more infrastructure is dangerous. From an air planners pov its an opportunity. More targets.

AIM

There's an inherent contradiction here that was not queried in the discussion.

If air centric is the future then why are we insisting on parity with infrastructure ? in the event of a war we can bomb theirs, our air force has none of the restrictions their air force faces in terms of logistics, range or weapons load.

Because in the Indian military its the belly crawlers that call the shots isn't it. Everything is seen from the ground centric pov.

This is why capturing the heights is seen as a win for the army but not a big thing for the Air force.


He goes on to say, commies do not understand economics when it comes to infrastructure. Build, build. That road to nowhere, a hospital for nobody etc.

The road comment got me thinking about something OOE said. That road to nowhere near a lagoon is how secret ballistic missile sites were found in Russia during the cold war

AIM thinks the standoff will conclude like Doklam. So the standoff will go through winter until spring, maybe by May there will be some sort of preliminary accord. In the mean time we continue to build infrastructure at a frenetic pace. We continue to do so as long as talks are on but no agreement is reached. Prolonging the disengagement helps us iow. So after having built as much as we can we then say we withdraw to where we were in March 2020.

[kuku]

In the event of a war, it will still be the military holding ground.
We need multiple options in terms of infra, if the PLA aircraft and missiles find their targets, we will have a lot of repairs to do. lots of connecting roads would be crucial.

I do not follow Indian military procuring high technology in electronic warfare equipment, PRC tends to talk about this element in warfare and open source has indicated several assets in space on land in air, and in the sea dedicated to this, and we do not seem to be highly prepared for such intensity, might come back to bite us in the if our soldiers, planes, and people can not talk with each other.
Indian military forces take the services of top of the line breach and attack simulation softwares, i hope this EW part they also prepared for.

The recent Armenia Uzbekistan showed the inefficiency of Russian equipment in providing Anti Air capability against the sort of unmanned thread which is in operations in their thousands with PRC, that would be another headache for India.
The other kit we have for low-level defence is domestic or Israeli, and in the mess in Kashmir we shot our own helicopter with the Israeli system, the domestic system remains untested in a war, so who knows what will happen.

One thing is certain India will not shy away from casualties paid as a price to holding ground, as long as the lines are well supplied we can hold any advance.
Indian public is ready to pay the price to hold our land, whatever may it be, irrespective of the incompetence of the generals and the politicians.

[m a x]

Microwave arms used by China at LAC? Fake news, asserts Army

If it is fake, then how the Indian troops have been forced to retreat from the battleground

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957019/China-used-secret-microwave-pulse-weapon-Indian-soldiers.html

[kuku]

If it is fake, then how the Indian troops have been forced to retreat from the battleground
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957019/China-used-secret-microwave-pulse-weapon-Indian-soldiers.html

If you think about the microwaves which can do this at the sort of altitudes, ranges, and terrain in question, you have to go through a class of physics, not an online discussion.

These are the sort of stupid arguments evangelists use, if God is not there then how is this possible how is that possible

And the established presence of troops at the heights is well documented by several authors working on a daily basis, compared with some random shit newspapers decided to publish.

[Oracle]

If it is fake, then how the Indian troops have been forced to retreat from the battleground

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957019/China-used-secret-microwave-pulse-weapon-Indian-soldiers.html

Sunny boi, do some reading, post # 1853. Reading is not your forte, I know. But try.