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  • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
    Expand to how much. You've said they have no more than a few hundred or less than five hundred. They might have fissile material to make more like others but they aren't doing that.

    Have things changed since ?
    They belive 100 ICBMs to be sufficent, up from 24.

    Chimo

    Comment


    • An achievement of the Trump administration is getting Pompeo to speak up about China.



      Here is an op-ed by US director of intelligence


      China Is National Security Threat No. 1 | WSJ (op-ed) | Dec 03 2020

      Resisting Beijing’s attempt to reshape and dominate the world is the challenge of our generation.
      By John Ratcliffe
      Dec. 3, 2020 1:20 pm ET

      As Director of National Intelligence, I am entrusted with access to more intelligence than any member of the U.S. government other than the president. I oversee the intelligence agencies, and my office produces the President’s Daily Brief detailing the threats facing the country. If I could communicate one thing to the American people from this unique vantage point, it is that the People’s Republic of China poses the greatest threat to America today, and the greatest threat to democracy and freedom world-wide since World War II.

      The intelligence is clear: Beijing intends to dominate the U.S. and the rest of the planet economically, militarily and technologically. Many of China’s major public initiatives and prominent companies offer only a layer of camouflage to the activities of the Chinese Communist Party.

      I call its approach of economic espionage “rob, replicate and replace.” China robs U.S. companies of their intellectual property, replicates the technology, and then replaces the U.S. firms in the global marketplace.

      Take Sinovel. In 2018 a federal jury found the Chinese wind-turbine manufacturer guilty of stealing trade secrets from American Superconductor. Penalties were imposed but the damage was done. The theft resulted in the U.S. company losing more than $1 billion in shareholder value and cutting 700 jobs. Today Sinovel sells wind turbines world-wide as if it built a legitimate business through ingenuity and hard work rather than theft.

      The FBI frequently arrests Chinese nationals for stealing research-and-development secrets. Until the head of Harvard’s Chemistry Department was arrested earlier this year, China was allegedly paying him $50,000 a month as part of a plan to attract top scientists and reward them for stealing information. The professor has pleaded not guilty to making false statements to U.S. authorities. Three scientists were ousted in 2019 from MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston over concerns about China’s theft of cancer research. The U.S. government estimates that China’s intellectual-property theft costs America as much as $500 billion a year, or between $4,000 and $6,000 per U.S. household.

      China also steals sensitive U.S. defense technology to fuel President Xi Jinping’s aggressive plan to make China the world’s foremost military power. U.S. intelligence shows that China has even conducted human testing on members of the People’s Liberation Army in hope of developing soldiers with biologically enhanced capabilities. There are no ethical boundaries to Beijing’s pursuit of power.

      China is also developing world-class capabilities in emerging technologies. Its intelligence services use their access to tech firms such as Huawei to enable malicious activities, including the introduction of vulnerabilities into software and equipment. Huawei and other Chinese firms deny this, but China’s efforts to dominate 5G telecommunications will only increase Beijing’s opportunities to collect intelligence, disrupt communications and threaten user privacy world-wide. I have personally told U.S. allies that using such Chinese-owned technology will severely limit America’s ability to share vital intelligence with them.

      China already suppresses U.S. web content that threatens the Communist Party’s ideological control, and it is developing offensive cyber capabilities against the U.S. homeland. This year China engaged in a massive influence campaign that included targeting several dozen members of Congress and congressional aides.

      Consider this scenario: A Chinese-owned manufacturing facility in the U.S. employs several thousand Americans. One day, the plant’s union leader is approached by a representative of the Chinese firm. The businessman explains that the local congresswoman is taking a hard-line position on legislation that runs counter to Beijing’s interests—even though it has nothing to do with the industry the company is involved in—and says the union leader must urge her to shift positions or the plant and all its jobs will soon be gone.

      The union leader contacts his congresswoman and indicates that his members won’t support her re-election without a change in position. He tells himself he’s protecting his members, but in that moment he’s doing China’s bidding, and the congresswoman is being influenced by China, whether she realizes it or not.

      Our intelligence shows that Beijing regularly directs this type of influence operation in the U.S. I briefed the House and Senate Intelligence committees that China is targeting members of Congress with six times the frequency of Russia and 12 times the frequency of Iran.

      To address these threats and more, I have shifted resources inside the $85 billion annual intelligence budget to increase the focus on China. This shift must continue to ensure U.S. intelligence has the resources it needs to give policy makers unvarnished insights into China’s intentions and activities.

      Within intelligence agencies, a healthy debate and shift in thinking is already under way. For the talented intelligence analysts and operators who came up during the Cold War, the Soviet Union and Russia have always been the focus. For others who rose through the ranks at the turn of this century, counterterrorism has been top of mind. But today we must look with clear eyes at the facts in front of us, which make plain that China should be America’s primary national security focus going forward.

      Other nations must understand this is true for them as well. The world is being presented a choice between two wholly incompatible ideologies. China’s leaders seek to subordinate the rights of the individual to the will of the Communist Party. They exert government control over companies and subvert the privacy and freedom of their citizens with an authoritarian surveillance state.

      We shouldn’t assume that Beijing’s efforts to drag the world back into the dark will fail just because the forces of good have triumphed before in modern times. China believes that a global order without it at the top is a historical aberration. It aims to change that and reverse the spread of liberty around the world.

      Beijing is preparing for an open-ended period of confrontation with the U.S. Washington should also be prepared. Leaders must work across partisan divides to understand the threat, speak about it openly, and take action to address it.

      This is our once-in-a-generation challenge. Americans have always risen to the moment, from defeating the scourge of fascism to bringing down the Iron Curtain. This generation will be judged by its response to China’s effort to reshape the world in its own image and replace America as the dominant superpower. The intelligence is clear. Our response must be as well.

      Mr. Ratcliffe is U.S. director of national intelligence.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        They belive 100 ICBMs to be sufficent, up from 24.
        MIRV them, throw in some decoys and the number of nukes is still in the low hundreds.

        So no change as far as China nuclear doctrine is concerned. Yes ?

        There was a flutter a few months earlier as to whether there would be an increase but does not seem like it from a nuke pov.

        Intermediate range missiles is another story.

        Comment


        • Professor Gershaneck has his book hosted at Quantico

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          • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            However, like all things, we're human and we do read things wrong. Chinese man-made islands whose goal was to deter American interference in what they perceived as Chinese waters. The question is can we correct things when we do read things wrong. Chinese islands may not stop Western naval powers but the locals ain't doing FNOPS.
            The weak link was the US - Philippines relationship. Left the door wide open for CCP to come in and exploit it.

            I understood this perfectly when the same nonsense happened in Nepal.

            Carbon copy game plan.

            The now opposition in Philippines makes a big song and dance about sovereignty. Well they tried with the ICJ but there could have been more.

            Australia stands up because they know the US has their back. The same with India and also Japan. Let's not forget Taiwan.

            Whatever political interference failed big time when Tsai Ing wen resoundingly got a second term.

            A ragtag miltia like the mujaheddin could give the Soviets so much trouble then how much of trouble could the Philippine military give the Chinese Maritime law enforcement agency ?

            We're talking about their rights to exploit whatever falls within internationally agreed limits

            If the leadership there is wavering uncertain of what they should do then things end up as they did.

            Wish i knew as much when that pinoy guy showed up here some time back
            Last edited by Double Edge; 14 Dec 20,, 22:11.

            Comment


            • ^ Interesting. The part you quoted are my views. People read my posts here and talk about it without giving credit to me.

              My view of the Cold War is that it was played nicely by the US vis-a-vis Soviet Russia, badly when it comes to China. And more than Kissinger, it was Nixon who wanted to bootlick the Chinese. And I stand by my view that after Soviet Russia was dismantled, the US did not see the threat that a communist China would pose in the future, and went into a deep slumber. In the Colonel's language, US opened her legs only to be used and abused, repeatedly by the CPC since 1970. Trump was an outlier in case of PRC. Look at middle-east, Israel and UAE. Democrats would talk about human rights, and open US' legs wide open to China, although this time, I think there is bi-partisan support in US to clip China's wings. I don't trust the US left to do anything significant though.

              I think the Colonel view me as an alarmist. But, fear the day, China topples the United States. Yes. Fear that day very much.

              This was in response to DE's post # 1950.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                MIRV them, throw in some decoys and the number of nukes is still in the low hundreds.
                Not without new nuke tests. The smallest Chinese warhead is a W10 copy and while the DF-5s could carry 3 of them, the DF-5s are obsolete. The newer DF-31s could only carry one Chinese W10 copy. The Chinese in theory could design even a smaller warhead but without testing (oh, what do you know ... DF-21Ds anti-ship missiles), they won't have the confidence that these warheads would work.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                My view of the Cold War is that it was played nicely by the US vis-a-vis Soviet Russia, badly when it comes to China. And more than Kissinger, it was Nixon who wanted to bootlick the Chinese. And I stand by my view that after Soviet Russia was dismantled, the US did not see the threat that a communist China would pose in the future, and went into a deep slumber. In the Colonel's language, US opened her legs only to be used and abused, repeatedly by the CPC since 1970. Trump was an outlier in case of PRC. Look at middle-east, Israel and UAE. Democrats would talk about human rights, and open US' legs wide open to China, although this time, I think there is bi-partisan support in US to clip China's wings. I don't trust the US left to do anything significant though.
                Your view of the Cold War is extremely skewed. I want you to understand the mindset. AT BEST, both sides, the Cold War would continue indefinetely. However, we were expecting WWIII. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and we could not, did not, would not depend on Hope. Imagine you and a bad guy have AK47s aimed at each other. He hates you as much as you hate him. The best outcome is neither of you squeeze the trigger but neither of you is going to put down that rifle. The Cold War ended because the bad guy got hungry, not because you forced him to lay down his rifle.

                And if was China who whored herself. You didn't live through Tianamen Square. The resulting sanctions and Chinese economic collapse left DXP little choice but to offer bargin basement prices. DXP made it legal for Western factories to ignore China's environmental concerns and pay Chinese labourers slave wages ... and borrow big time, artifically lowering the exchange rates so there was an influx of foreign money.

                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                I think the Colonel view me as an alarmist. But, fear the day, China topples the United States. Yes. Fear that day very much.
                With what? Some sand castles? They couldn't scare Indians off of some rocks. What makes you think they're going to march down Washnington?
                Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 15 Dec 20,, 03:18.
                Chimo

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  Not without new nuke tests. The smallest Chinese warhead is a W10 copy and while the DF-5s could carry 3 of them, the DF-5s are obsolete. The newer DF-31s could only carry one Chinese W10 copy. The Chinese in theory could design even a smaller warhead but without testing (oh, what do you know ... DF-21Ds anti-ship missiles), they won't have the confidence that these warheads would work.

                  Your view of the Cold War is extremely skewed. I want you to understand the mindset. AT BEST, both sides, the Cold War would continue indefinetely. However, we were expecting WWIII. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst and we could not, did not, would not depend on Hope. Imagine you and a bad guy have AK47s aimed at each other. He hates you as much as you hate him. The best outcome is neither of you squeeze the trigger but neither of you is going to put down that rifle. The Cold War ended because the bad guy got hungry, not because you forced him to lay down his rifle.

                  And if was China who whored herself. You didn't live through Tianamen Square. The resulting sanctions and Chinese economic collapse left DXP little choice but to offer bargin basement prices. DXP made it legal for Western factories to ignore China's environmental concerns and pay Chinese labourers slave wages ... and borrow big time, artifically lowering the exchange rates so there was an influx of foreign money.
                  Hmmm, you're right. See, part of being a civilian is that I don't have a hardcoded mentality, so my views change with time, and confusion prevails over facts. 10 years back my political affiliations were centre-left (cursed Modi so so much), now centre-right. Not much has changed in my thinking about freedom of this and that, just that I have become a strong proponent of an open economy now. The other thing is, if my view of the Cold War is skewed, it is not my fault. I do read, but if I read shit, I won't utter pearls of wisdom. There are no articles or sources that can give me a brief of that period. The thing that you wrote above is my only source of information, which I don't have to double-check. I am so terrified of posting things now, as fakes galore. Even YouTube channels are spreading propaganda. Nobody thought 10 years back that YouTube, FB, WhatsApp would be the perfect tools to spread disinformation.

                  I was born some years before the Tiananmen Square massacre, although it would be inherently incorrect to say I understood the happenings at that time.

                  With what? Some sand castles? They couldn't scare Indians off of some rocks. What makes you think they're going to march down Washnington?
                  I like that. Whenever, I am confused regarding polity, and that is once every week, your statements give me courage.
                  Last edited by Oracle; 15 Dec 20,, 08:17.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Shiv was down with the wuhan virus and seems to have recovered. He says there is a Chinese village inside Bhutan

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      ^ Interesting. The part you quoted are my views. People read my posts here and talk about it without giving credit to me.

                      My view of the Cold War is that it was played nicely by the US vis-a-vis Soviet Russia, badly when it comes to China. And more than Kissinger, it was Nixon who wanted to bootlick the Chinese. And I stand by my view that after Soviet Russia was dismantled, the US did not see the threat that a communist China would pose in the future, and went into a deep slumber. In the Colonel's language, US opened her legs only to be used and abused, repeatedly by the CPC since 1970. Trump was an outlier in case of PRC. Look at middle-east, Israel and UAE. Democrats would talk about human rights, and open US' legs wide open to China, although this time, I think there is bi-partisan support in US to clip China's wings. I don't trust the US left to do anything significant though.

                      I think the Colonel view me as an alarmist. But, fear the day, China topples the United States. Yes. Fear that day very much.

                      This was in response to DE's post # 1950.
                      Part I quoted were the professor's views which you can listen to in the discussion linked in #1950. He says a lot, every word was meaningful.

                      Yeah the professor is also going to get painted as alarmist. He's calling it out and putting it out there for all to see. A bit late in the day at that but its more clear now than it was say two years ago. Or to put it another way, get taken seriously saying it.

                      Check out his book. Review of his book.

                      The US left is getting a roasting but they have yet to assume office. The soon to be opposition is painting a bleak picture. They will then use this to bash the govt and keep them at it.

                      The rhetoric will continue. The bit people do not expect Biden to do is follow up with action. Obama 2.0 is the billing, well, wait and see.

                      That is what we need to keep a keen eye on. Forget what they say, the action is what counts.

                      This will take a good two years to become clear. And even then it won't be talked about in the MSM. Take the FONOPS thing with Obama, i only get to find out he cut them short AFTER he left office. Over four years later !!

                      However I'm willing to give them a chance and not second guess everything beforehand.

                      eg. Listen to AIM rant and scare monger about Biden's cabinet. US Foreign policy is going to be such a disaster. Hah, yeah right...

                      Didn't commentators say the same about Trump's cabinet and all those generals he picked up
                      Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Dec 20,, 10:35.

                      Comment


                      • Political warfare = propaganda = public relations. Considering what is happening world wide concerning Chinese actions on COVID, they ain't the masters budget demanders make them out to be.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          Political warfare = propaganda = public relations. Considering what is happening world wide concerning Chinese actions on COVID, they ain't the masters budget demanders make them out to be.
                          That's what i think but you said earlier they were good at PR and we are recently learning the depth of penetration in many countries.

                          They got the President elect's son (!)

                          Good at PR you said. Professor above turned that line into a book.

                          I don't know the extent of their penetration in India. Nobody talks about it or wants to talk about it.

                          What is the level of compromise here when the foreign minister will not name China after 20 soldiers dead at Galwan.

                          China may lose a lot of goodwill he says so killing 20 was not enough then.

                          AIM makes these statements and its hard to know if he is right or not.

                          There is also another thing you said which is giving the other guy an out. Conflict management 101 ?

                          Something commentators do not appreciate.

                          At the same time we refuse to accede to their terms which is reduce infrastructure at the border in exchange for disengagement.

                          I'm more inclined to buy the compromise theory with the previous govt which depended on coalition partners to remain in office.

                          All China would have to do in that case was successfully influence one or more partners to remote control India's foreign policy.

                          I'd imagine they tried top topple the nuke deal by getting the commies to pull support but failed.

                          Compromise is less likely with a govt that already has a majority, won a second time and can't be toppled.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Dec 20,, 13:00.

                          Comment


                          • This is hilarious

                            Canada-China Military Training in Canada Cancelled After US Raised Security Concerns, Documents Show | Epoch Times | Dec 10 2020

                            Foreign affairs office thinks it should go ahead for the sake of good relations...Does this mean the Canadian govt is compromised TOO ?

                            Conservatives criticise Liberals for pushing to "Train Chinese Troops" in Canada | Epoch Times | Dec 10 2020


                            Click image for larger version  Name:	canada conservative.png Views:	0 Size:	782.6 KB ID:	1569929

                            Really feel sorry for these guys
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Dec 20,, 01:00.

                            Comment


                            • ^ Canada has become a joke under Justin Bieber. Colonel, no offence to you. You should move to Bahamas. Cricket, sun, sand and dark rum.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • CDS Gen Vance allowed Chinese observers in last year's Winter Warfare training but he absolutely refused to allow Chinese troops to participate in this year's Winter Warfare exercise.

                                But frankly I am at a loss why China needs to come to Canada for Winter Warfare training. If there is a master of Winter Warfare, it's the Russians and it has nothing to do with the men.
                                Chimo

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