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Border face-off: China and India each deploy 3,000 troops

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  • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You don't. You have to outspend the Wongs and overly so.
    How are we to do that with a smaller defense budget ?

    The way i see it you don't have to outspend you just need enough to deter them. No chance of a win, no play.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    That's a myth. You can't hide that many funerals. Chinese families absolutely know that their sons/fathers/brothers ain't coming home. What the Chinese did, however, was information management. The People's War and the follow up The People's War under Modern Conditions. This essentially explained to the populace why they're surrendering the border areas to the Soviets.
    The families absolutely know. But what about the masses ? there is no chance for any resistance to build up when it isn't being screamed at you like in a free country.

    If we could do what you said we'd have solved the border problem long ago. But since Nehru, its unacceptable to lose territory for the Indian public.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Again, information management. Even in the US, opposition to the Iraq Invasion was based on the idea that the US was going to war over oil. I'm sure the same outcry can be made about going to war over rocks.
    heh, i like the analogy. But aren't the Chinese doing the same as well ?

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    It should have lead you to a few other conclusions.
    Have to help out in Afghanistan if we want those armed drones.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    No, neither side is stupid enough to goto war over rocks no matter what the newspapers say.
    True since day 1

    $0.5bn per month is VFM compared to $50bn per month and both countries like affordable solutions.

    Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The US Arms Industry are extremely happy to relieve you of monies you don't have.
    Given them $20 bn so far.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
      You don't. You have to outspend the Wongs and overly so.

      That's a myth. You can't hide that many funerals. Chinese families absolutely know that their sons/fathers/brothers ain't coming home. What the Chinese did, however, was information management. The People's War and the follow up The People's War under Modern Conditions. This essentially explained to the populace why they're surrendering the border areas to the Soviets.

      Again, information management. Even in the US, opposition to the Iraq Invasion was based on the idea that the US was going to war over oil. I'm sure the same outcry can be made about going to war over rocks.
      Information management, hmmm. I am not very keen on nukes though, instead build 5x ballistic missiles.

      It should have lead you to a few other conclusions.
      They did. We'll not fight America's war. That is abundantly clear for the past 7 decades. We'll try to absorb some of the supply chains, US MNCs have in China and want to diversify. Even though we're in the Quad, India keeps repeating that Quad is not against any country. America has the means and can win this fight against China, they don't need our help, and frankly we can't help much other than amassing troops on our Northern-NE border. Now, if US needs an excuse, and the CPC is stupid enough to give them one, the PLA will start a war with India/Taiwan etc. I don't comfort any positive thoughts from the communists though.

      No, neither side is stupid enough to goto war over rocks no matter what the newspapers say.
      I haven't been to that place, but those places and the rocks that make it are stunningly beautiful. We'll just keep it for the scenery.

      The US Arms Industry are extremely happy to relieve you of monies you don't have.
      The memory of 1991 and the associated humiliation is still intact on our minds. We will never again be a banana republic. We will buy things that we can pay for. Instead of 125 Rafales, India bought 36. 114 singe seater fighter jets, we haven't yet decided. I keep on repeating that India needs to invest 5% of GDP on defence, but where is the money? You think I don't understand these issues. I do. Then I get p!ssed at the way things move here, I curse the incumbent government, and then realise why. Economy.

      One good thing that has come from this confrontation with China is that the Government is throwing open new sectors for investment, modifying laws, building infrastructure at a pace that has never been done before, and many other things. It will hurt our bank balance, waiting endlessly, starting at PLA troops at the border, but China can't outspend us short of a long-major war. And we'll find new ways to open up our restrictive market. I hope this confrontation with PLA continues for the next 1 year, see if the GoI bends, gives out licences for an Indian porn industry and also marijuana. There is an open position in the future for a casting director.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

      Comment


      • Niti village is in niti valley uttarakhand near Badrinath valley of flower area, if you do not know it, you must visit it.

        These "rocks" have been fought over before.
        If we do not keep forces that act as a deterrent, PRC has been an enemy state since our independence and should be treated as one.
        Appeasement is never a good strategy when faced with dictators like the CCP, the only way to stand up to them is to tell them that every inch of the land will be defended with the last man standing, the last drop of blood, and with rocks against bullets if necessary.

        Diplomatically we have been so blind that right now we are in a situation that we need US to help us drive PRC out of our neighbourhood, silly to see that people still have doubts the objective of PRC in the neighbourhood is to Contain India.

        this is the attitude required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czLKt9DJxlM
        Last edited by kuku; 31 Oct 20,, 08:47.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kuku View Post
          Niti village is in niti valley uttarakhand near Badrinath valley of flower area, if you do not know it, you must visit it.

          These "rocks" have been fought over before.
          If we do not keep forces that act as a deterrent, PRC has been an enemy state since our independence and should be treated as one.
          Appeasement is never a good strategy when faced with dictators like the CCP, the only way to stand up to them is to tell them that every inch of the land will be defended with the last man standing, the last drop of blood, and with rocks against bullets if necessary.
          Looks like a nice place. In a normal situation this would be a tourist hotspot with hamlets for hire. That is if the roads to get there allow for it.

          Originally posted by kuku View Post
          Diplomatically we have been so blind that right now we are in a situation that we need US to help us drive PRC out of our neighbourhood, silly to see that people still have doubts the objective of PRC in the neighbourhood is to Contain India.
          Pompeo visited Indonesia before coming here. He then went on to Sri Lanka & Maldives.

          The effects of this trip will become clear in the coming months but its significant in pushing back China.

          Those trips by the army chief to Nepal & Burma are also part of it.

          It will take time but the process of checkmating China in the region has begun.

          People are saying we have fallen in the US lap. Why can't you see it the other way around. The US has fallen in our lap.

          Big change from the past when we wanted no superpowers in the region. The Indian Ocean was to remain a zone of peace.

          We have common interests and can work together for a long time with partners in the region.

          Stitching together alliances is what the US is far better at than China.

          Originally posted by kuku View Post
          this is the attitude required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czLKt9DJxlM
          Are there any incursions by the PLA in that area ?
          Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 14:38.

          Comment


          • There's been some commentary on Australia's inclusion in the quad and why it matters. AIM & Kanwal Sibal have spoken about it.

            Maritime surveillance is one thing they bring to the table, they will know when Chinese subs transit the Sunda & Lombok straits according to Sibal.

            What queered relations a decade ago with India was the sudden shift in policy that happened with Rudd. AIM refers to him as a China stooge.

            Howards's govt offered a Uranium deal with India which Rudd scuttled. There's a thread here about it.

            Rudd's foreign minister publicly announces in Beijing of all places that Australia would not be part of the quad. Said foreign minister visits Beijing before Tokyo which is no way to treat an ally.

            AIM is pretty blunt in his assessment of Australia and advises to ignore any apologists that say otherwise. Rudd was in China's pocket and did their bidding.

            Given AIM's spent some time in Australia i'm taking his word for it.

            Aussie politics has been divided for the past few years which made anything they promised us doubtful. Would the next administration reverse things again.

            They've been through 6 PM's in the last ten years. It's no wonder China managed to make quite a few inroads into society there and got people paranoid about it.

            So it's taken effort by Turnbull & Morrison's govt to rebuild this relationship and get things back on track.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 11:34.

            Comment


            • ^ Many in Labour Party are China stooges.

              Vis-a-vis your post to Kuku - Royal Enfield (always had a fascination for Enfield, but never bought one, I will in 2 years) goes there. Check out some vlogs in YouTube of those areas - Sikkim/Uttarakhand/Ladakh etc. Mind-blowing. One more thing, earlier I would watch videos and close the tab once done. I'd forget to like the video. Now I hit on 'like', people who make these videos and share, a lot of work goes into those, so they deserve a like. For some, it's their bread and butter.
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                ^ Many in Labour Party are China stooges.
                That is the weak spot of the quad. Any administration from any of the four is susceptible. All China has to do is weaken one party and then does the whole thing unravel again ?

                Given Australia is the only one with a trade surplus its harder for them to maintain a stance. That they some how managed this recently is notable. They took a hit with that policy decision.

                I don't know if we've reached a point where there is a lasting bipartisan consensus on the China challenge in all these four countries.

                The US seems to have reached this point. Not clear about the other three. We're good till 2024 in india.

                Another thing i wanted to say is don't reduce the quad to military only. It's more than that.

                The more potent threat to China comes from coordination among the four with more like minded parties in the political, economic & diplomatic spheres.

                Now they are being tested in three more spheres. Military alone won't keep them out.


                Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                Vis-a-vis your post to Kuku - Royal Enfield (always had a fascination for Enfield, but never bought one, I will in 2 years) goes there. Check out some vlogs in YouTube of those areas - Sikkim/Uttarakhand/Ladakh etc. Mind-blowing. One more thing, earlier I would watch videos and close the tab once done. I'd forget to like the video. Now I hit on 'like', people who make these videos and share, a lot of work goes into those, so they deserve a like. For some, it's their bread and butter.
                Good stuff
                Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Oct 20,, 13:31.

                Comment


                • PLA barracks over 5,000 metres. Looks like Pangong and nearby



                  Latest in high altitude apparel



                  They patrol on horses not yaks. The video title says they have satellite reception.



                  These guys aren't wearing sunscreen like those dudes in the other video


                  ^Title says (Video of India's snow mountain camp on the 6000-meter plateau of Pangong Lake). Can't see any lake there

                  Even has one of our guys up on the heights on Pangong



                  ^Hard to tell when this video was taken. June this year ? or later

                  In the latest video of the confrontation between the Indian Army and the People’s Liberation Army in Bangong Lake, the Indian Army waved the Indian flag, and the People’s Liberation Army waved the Chinese flag to the Indian Army. Combined with China’s infrastructure information on the forward positions, China has no problem in fully controlling the area.
                  UPDATE: changed feet to metres. Thx kuku
                  Last edited by Double Edge; 01 Nov 20,, 14:26.

                  Comment


                  • You meant 5000 meters, 5000 feet is too low.....
                    In our area of what you guys here call "stones & rocks"
                    PLA does try to threaten some sheaperds and old women out on a picknik in Tibet, but they don't get much cares from the sheaperds or the old ladies, the disputed area is small here, so unless its a full blown war nothing much to worry about.

                    You do not need a heavy motorbike to travel, I've gone all the way to 12000 feet on a 150 cc Pulsar, if you happen to be able to travel, do try, and see the stars like you've never seen them.

                    Comment


                    • PRC has the old dictator problem, they bullshit things far more than they can do.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                        How are we to do that with a smaller defense budget ?

                        The way i see it you don't have to outspend you just need enough to deter them. No chance of a win, no play.
                        The point is that if India is not willing to go for the cheaper option (an arms race), then the more expensive option (a military strike) is out of the question.

                        No one here is talking about appeasement but rather choosing your battles. I point to Deng's China simply as an illustration that 100 miles of the border area is not a battle that Deng will fight but cross into that 100 miles, Deng will fight and fight hard. People's War Under Modern Conditions. Essentially, outbleeding the Soviets rather than going toe-to-toe.

                        Want to make it hard for the PLA to patrol? Spray pig urine in their patrol path. I guarrantinee you that no one is walking that path for at least 2 weeks.
                        Chimo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kuku View Post
                          this is the attitude required: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czLKt9DJxlM
                          Baby seals.

                          I rather see an organized militia.

                          Chimo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
                            The point is that if India is not willing to go for the cheaper option (an arms race), then the more expensive option (a military strike) is out of the question.

                            No one here is talking about appeasement but rather choosing your battles. I point to Deng's China simply as an illustration that 100 miles of the border area is not a battle that Deng will fight but cross into that 100 miles, Deng will fight and fight hard. People's War Under Modern Conditions. Essentially, outbleeding the Soviets rather than going toe-to-toe.

                            Want to make it hard for the PLA to patrol? Spray pig urine in their patrol path. I guarrantinee you that no one is walking that path for at least 2 weeks.
                            Smell deters? Never heard of this concept before.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                            Comment


                            • China set to build key rail line close to Arunachal border

                              When PRC builds infrastructure on occupied lands, that's okay. When India tries to match PRC in doing so in its own lands, it's a crime. Communist Nazi logic.

                              Chinese Communist Party unveils plan to make PLA on par with US military by 2027

                              So, from 2028 the world will change in ways more than one. We'll all watch Chinese porn, wear Chinese brands, crave Chinese movies, immigrate to China for those non-existent highly skilled jobs etcetera.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                                Smell deters? Never heard of this concept before.
                                Take it you never tango with a skunk before.
                                Chimo

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