new Cold War?

[cdude]

The fact that Russia took anything at all, that it used its military might to forcibly rip away and annex a Belgium sized piece of a neighbor's sovereign territory, shows enough of Putin's "caliber" to justify an expansion of NATO to every nation on Russia's doorstep. Great Powers anywhere, but especially in Europe, are not supposed to behave this way, especially in Europe in the 21st century for Christ sakes. My GOD what a violation, what a precedent. And I don't care what the percentage is of ethnic Russians in Crimea that worship Putin. Russia can't do what it did, nor should the West ever deal with Russia as a responsible partner again.

Czechoslovakia circa 1938 is far too distant a time to draw too many comparisons about what's appropriate or not.

Well, you skipped a lot of shit between 1938 and 2014, especially that shithole called Kosovo.

[Goatboy]

Well, you skipped a lot of shit between 1938 and 2014, especially that shithole called Kosovo.

I didn't skip anything, I was responding to the previous statement made about Czechoslovakia. And I said before, there's no meaningful equivalency between Kosovo and Crimea -- and I say this not being completely comfortable with aspects of the West's involvement in Kosovo.

[cdude]

there's no meaningful equivalency between Kosovo and Crimea

That's, like, your opinion.

But nobody was killed for Crimea, so I give you that.

[Goatboy]

That's, like, your opinion.

But nobody was killed for Crimea, so I give you that.

The Big Lebowski? lol...

[Doktor]

I didn't skip anything, I was responding to the previous statement made about Czechoslovakia. And I said before, there's no meaningful equivalency between Kosovo and Crimea -- and I say this not being completely comfortable with aspects of the West's involvement in Kosovo.

So, Russia doesn't have to recognize it? Good for the Ruskies.

BTW, There is progress between Chechnya, Georgia and Crimea, just look at before and after pictures. Russian master the art, wanna bet the next thing will be spontaneous "Otpor-like" revolution?

[S2]

Stay away from Dude references unless qualified.

You've been warned.

There are little lebowski urban achievers everywhere...

...and they're watching.

Always watching.

[YellowFever]

Stay away from Dude references unless qualified.

You've been warned.

There are little lebowski urban achievers everywhere...

...and they're watching.

Always watching.

I concur.

[Bigfella]

Stay away from Dude references unless qualified.

You've been warned.

There are little lebowski urban achievers everywhere...

...and they're watching.

Always watching.

The Dude is abiding people. Best you pay attention!

[Doktor]

The Dude is abiding people. Best you pay attention!

:insane:

[snapper]

Our Russian nationalist posters and propagandists will be delighted to know that Oleksandr Muzychko, aka Sashko Bily, died yesterday in Rivne after a gunfight with Police. Presumably this is further evidence of the 'Nazism' of the interim Government. The truth is that he was nothing more than a criminal thug who shot at police trying to arrest him. Of course when a country is invaded in contradiction to previous treaties it encourages ultra nationalist reaction; Russian nationalist aggression directly aggravates Ukrainian nationalism but this of course is ignored.

[cyppok]

Our Russian nationalist posters and propagandists will be delighted to know that Oleksandr Muzychko, aka Sashko Bily, died yesterday in Rivne after a gunfight with Police. Presumably this is further evidence of the 'Nazism' of the interim Government. The truth is that he was nothing more than a criminal thug who shot at police trying to arrest him. Of course when a country is invaded in contradiction to previous treaties it encourages ultra nationalist reaction; Russian nationalist aggression directly aggravates Ukrainian nationalism but this of course is ignored.

invasion presumes there were no troops there before
the basing agreement allowed dislocation of troops and movement to protect bases from external threats.

Nationalist huh. Kravchuk(1st Ukr Pres) convinced Crimea not to have a referendum he said so on Savik Shuster Live proudly, in '90-'92 they were supposed to have one on exit, by '95 all those rights were stripped away and they changed constitution to not allow local referendums to take place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7coObEt-kY4
starts 8 minute mark... (yes they made it an autonomy with pres/econ devolution but they stripped those rights in 3 years)

[snapper]

invasion presumes there were no troops there before
the basing agreement allowed dislocation of troops and movement to protect bases from external threats.

Some strange law books you read, not sure why an invasion can only happen if there are no troops there. The terms of the lease were violated; a piece of territory that Russia previously recognised as Ukrainian (until this month) it unilaterally occupied and now says is part of Russia without using the law of Ukraine or it's Governments consent... and you're surprised when this creates a nationalist reaction in Ukraine and the rest of the world doesn't recognise this aggression?

[cyppok]

Some strange law books you read, not sure why an invasion can only happen if there are no troops there. The terms of the lease were violated; a piece of territory that Russia previously recognised as Ukrainian (until this month) it unilaterally occupied and now says is part of Russia without using the law of Ukraine or it's Governments consent... and you're surprised when this creates a nationalist reaction in Ukraine and the rest of the world doesn't recognise this aggression?

if Kravchuk didn't lie to convince Crimeans in 90-92 Crimea would have left on dissolution of USSR.

Lease wasn't violated they could move around and enforce peace outside bases on territory of Crimea.

Self-defense existed, because Berkut, SBU, militia(cops), etc... went over on day 1 to the Crimean gov't.

[MrSecond]

Yes, Muzychko was killed by several shots at chest, one bullet in heart. Accidental death at police detention... :pop:

[MrSecond]

As I predicted before, Ukraine becomes a can of spiders. This is very symptomatic murder. Methods of Kiev government are not very different from methods of professional gangsters like Sashko Biliy. Pure political murder.