Boston Marathon bombings

[Officer of Engineers]

The question was posed to an American, as far as I know, or is USSWisconsin not an American?

It's even simpler than that. The border agent can tell you to get out on a whim and he does not even have to justify it.

[troung]

That defines it a little better, but it still leaves a lot of room for 'interpretation' - some people might distort opposition to certain US military action abroad as somehow being reflective of 'supporting terrorists and terrorism and therefore expressing a desire to harm the US or its citizens', much as Troung has been ranting about and accusing me of while trying to refute my arguments calling US Drone strikes in Pakistan violations of international law.

Yeah people who believe terrorists have a right to safe zones where they can plan attacks and compare Taliban members to the victims of the Boston attacks are victims...

[Blademaster]

I agree.

Visit any of the top five physics universities in the United States and you will discover that a good portion of the students are foreigners. They graduate and go home rather than remain in the US and apply their talents stateside. These are very bright people and the brain-drain is counterproductive. A similar negative cycle occurs in the field of engineering.

I disagree. After all, the students are bearing the brunt for education and massively subsidizing the costs of education. They don't get in-state tuition costs or get any scholarships or grants. They must take out huge loans with exorbitant rates from their home countries or save a lot to pay the costs of education. Your proposal and astralis run contrary to free market principles. If you want those students to stay, then you must offer the same level of financing previously enjoyed. Otherwise the whole thing becomes a highly advanced form of indenture servitude.

[Officer of Engineers]

If you want those students to stay, then you must offer the same level of financing previously enjoyed. Otherwise the whole thing becomes a highly advanced form of indenture servitude.

You mean like marriage?

[Blademaster]

You mean like marriage?

That is necessitated by the most valuable part of manhood whereas education is not.

[chanjyj]

I am talking about a person who has been outspoken about hating the US or expressing a desire to harm the US or its citizens. I do think someone in another country who wants to stop gun control legislation here is sort of spooky, why is that their business? Do they want to come here and be able to obtain guns? I'd be rather skeptical about someone with a vehemently outspoken political agenda trying to gain admission.

If I did my 2nd Bachelor's in the US I would certainly want to own a firearm, and legislation changes might affect me. That is as far as I would go. Let's not go into why I would like to own a firearm, call me paranoid if you wish.

[tbm3fan]

They were not US citizens in the first place, so no drain. If they are more talented then their US colleagues, they would get an offer from a US company and will eventually stay. At least that was the way back in the days. If it is not like that any more, there is a problem with US competitiveness, not with the visa procedure.

I would hazard a guess that the reason has more to do with money than anything else. Many US colleges actively recruit foreign students because they pay full price tuition compared to local students. I may have paid $89 per semester back in 1972 but foreign students paid more. Difference was colleges weren't cash strapped like some now therefore their were few foreign students. Since money talks, and you have an equal number of in state and foreign students, who do you think the college will "actively" go after? Consequently their numbers are rising and since they cannot get residency status, like out of state students, they pay for a full ride all their years. I have read that there are now 32% more foreign students in the country than a decade ago.

[Officer of Engineers]

That is necessitated by the most valuable part of manhood whereas education is not.

Some things you just can't teach.

[USSWisconsin]

The question was posed to an American, as far as I know, or is USSWisconsin not an American?

I am a US citizen, born in Wisconsin. When I was working on my PhD in nuclear engineering in the early 1990's, at The University of Wisconsin, in Madison, Wisconsin, my professor "offered" me in state tuition more than once, trying to help me out (most of his students were international or from out of state), since I was a poor student - I just smiled and reminded him I was born in this state. Out of state tuition was 5 times higher than in state tuition, but in state graduate student tuition was still much higher than undergrad tuition. Eventually I got a research fellowship, but it was two years after I started because money was so tight after the fusion programs were cut. By then I had a good job offer at Cray Research and left to earn a living, even the research fellowship paid very poorly., I couldn't live on it, I was still taking loans to go to school and work every waking hour. I accrued 6 times more debt in 3 years of grad school than I did in 5 years as an undergrad (with a double major in math and physics). When Cray offered me 4 times what I was making in Madison, after eight years of poverty and growing debt, I said yes.

[USSWisconsin]

If I did my 2nd Bachelor's in the US I would certainly want to own a firearm, and legislation changes might affect me. That is as far as I would go. Let's not go into why I would like to own a firearm, call me paranoid if you wish.

I understand. You would be no threat to honest US citizens with a firearm either. But, as I understand it, the law needs to be applied universally, and only US citizens have a right to bear arms in the US without special permission (diplomatic security, military visitors etc.). Perhaps you could obtain a permit?

[Minskaya]

I would hazard a guess that the reason has more to do with money than anything else.

Money is definitely a huge factor, but not the sole factor. The world is catching up. One no longer has to remain in the United States to partake in cutting-edge physics research.

[Bigfella]

The US has benefitted immeasurably from its ability to pull in some of the most talented students, researchers & entrepreneurs. My understanding is that the process has become a good deal more difficult in recent years for a number of reasons - among them the 'Green Card' system. Personally that suits me, as some of those folk will head Down Under, but in the long term it will hurt the US.

[Agnostic Muslim]

It's even simpler than that. The border agent can tell you to get out on a whim and he does not even have to justify it.

Sure, but that wasn't the question ...

[Officer of Engineers]

Your question was

How would you define 'demonstrated contempt for the US'?

The answer is whatever the border agent decides it to be.

[Chogy]

AM, I have to agree with OoE here.

Being a Citizen carries with it the benefits of citizenship; protection under the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and U.S. laws. Non-citizens live in the USA purely at the discretion of the various agencies that oversee this process.

As far as what "demonstrated contempt" is? That too is at the discretion of those same agencies, and need not be sharply defined. Nor does there necessarily need to be due process for the person in question, so long as the result of that process is limited to being deported from the USA.

It might not be fair in all cases, but non-citizens are not "owed" anything. Why should they be?

It kind of boggles my mind. If I were a student or guest worker in a foreign nation, I'd keep my mouth shut about my host nation. Their laws and policies are none of my business. If I don't like it, I'll leave.