Bomb rocks government offices in Oslo, two said dead

[Mihais]

Ladies and Gents,I propose we make a new thread to discuss multiculti,immigration and related topics.Definition,pros,cons and no taboo's.I feel a bit awkward to talk about such themes in a thread that should be a memorial to the victims of a looney.

Maybe the mods can help move relevant posts there.

[FJV]

My hunch is that leaderless resistance is involved in this attack.

[USSWisconsin]

I find it offensive that they keep referring to this monster as a Christian - Breivik is about as far from that as it gets IMO. The way Norway dealt with Major Quisling was to make a special amendment to allow his execution - they didn't change the laws per say - just created a special law for him - I think they need to do the same for Breivik - the monster is just too dangerous - its like keeping a pet cobra - a danger to the neighborhood - and to everyone on earth in this case - his escape or release will probably result in more deaths of innocents. Why not get it over with and protect the whole by removing a malignant cancer on the face of humanity.

[crooks]

RIP to all the dead and condolences to the family. They were youth doing what politicised youth tend to do, sit around drinking beer and talking about how to save the world. As a member of the Irish Labour Party this is not just an affront to democracy but also a family affair. Our brothers and sisters in the international Labour and Socialist movement have suffered a cruel blow - how many future leaders in politics, the labour movement and wider society were gunned down by a fringist who sees skin colour and religion as an epic apocolyptic battle? His hatred of 'cultural Marxists' (including the one that competed on Norway's got Talent or the 14 year old activist) are signs not of insanity but one who watches Glenn Beck. Because leaving aside the shite he reads and watches that's what we are - ordinary people with ordinary lives, not devils or freaks (unlike him). I haven't posted on the board in a while but find this thread's evolution interesting - it's fascinating to see right-wingers more widely in the media go from moments after the bomb saying with almost glee how it showed the need to fight jihadism to frantically, like the cowards and cretins they are rowing back when the truth was revealed. He was white and doesn't fit the rag narrative, so we should all move on as quick as possible and pretend it never happened, he was insane, acted alone which makes it better, or the fact that he's a right-winger/fascist has nothing to do with anything.

What this tragedy MUST show is that while yes this is an isolated incident by a single person it is also the natural reaction to a political climate in which the right-wing freak show tells us it is us or them, we either purge those they find distasteful or they will purge us. They trawl through demographics, take a fatalist view of a (democratically elected) 'totalitarian' goverment that the far right tells them want to purge Europe of Christianity and white people in exchange for Sharia and are told that SS should be lauded for sticking to their 'convictions'. This man is a poster child for the above ideas that are totally acceptable in far-right circles. They are ALL insane and must not be listened to. The lesson to be learned here is that this loathing they possess for others and ultimately themselves only leads to one natural conclusion - I frequently ask that if Europe's Muslims are going to be it's end what is the solution those who say that present? Once more as cowards they never answer directly. Of course they're not racist, how dare you! They just would like less foreigners. It's not racist to scapegoat certains groups and preach intolerance, just the best way to defend Western Values (in an act of doublethink worthy of Orwell).

The insanity thing also is a bit flaky - he may well be so, but in addition to that he was perfectly rational and by all intents did this in cold logic and with full awareness of the consequences. He made the calculation that killing whoever he can is worth it to stop whatever crazy drug-induced rainbow world he fears. A freak, but if one believes that the world is being taken over by radical lefties and our multicultural fantasies massacres such as these are perfectly consistent. After all, we must be stopped. So he's done his bit for his God/race/whatever he gets hard on, a few Marxist children are gone and he struck a blow for freedom from multiculturalism (some of his victims were of Muslim descent so I suppose they are double hits). He will be disowned by those who are very slightly to his left as not representing them (and he doesn't, to be fair - they are more clever and less honest about their beliefs) while artfully ignoring his past membership before he got tired of waiting for the apocolypse and decided to create one just for himself. May he rot in prison and then burn in hell. May his fellow Nazi scum be scorned and ignored as they try to seep their posion into our political discourse. Above all may the world see this as what it was - while Muslim extremists are characterised as killing for what people don't believe in, this was a group of young people murdered for what they did believe in by a loon with to much time and too little experience of what it means to be human. Their values were ones of freedom, equality and community. His are those of racism, oppression and fascism and though they will protest the characterisation just because they haven't pulled a trigger lots could be put in the latter camp. I was in the former camp long before this and will be till they bury me. Reasonable people should show that majority of Europeans are not even remotely like the murderer. He doesn't represent European values, he represents the ugliest and most evil parts of Europe's history.

Once again, condolences to the families of the victims - In the words of Aaron Sorkin, the streets of heaven are too crowded with Angels tonight. Gone but not forgotten.

[Officer of Engineers]

Oh for Pete sakes, you're just as bad as the freak, using the graves of these kids as your soapbox.

[Mihais]

Crooks,while gold makes new highs,you make new lows.Disgusting mister,simply disgusting.

[Double Edge]

[BD1]

this rambling ´document´ of his looks like more that he was shopping for views to justify his will to kill, than other way round.

[USSWisconsin]

this rambling ´document´ of his looks like more that he was shopping for views to justify his will to kill, than other way round.

Agreed: the end seemed to give a lot of insight into the true character of breivik- a vile, vicious, malevolent, spoiled monster - who was full of itself, as well as nasty injected hormones and steroids. Too bad the doping didn't kill it. It is misplaced permissive, irresponsible, idealogical self indulgence not to execute such a dangerous and poisonous thing, IMO.

[Mihais]

I don't tend to follow politics that much since it's not my main interest.But our fellow wabbit Crooks' post sparked an evrika moment when I re-read it.It's obviously a generalization,but don't come to me with ''all generalizations are bad''.

It goes without saying that left and right see the other as wrong.The obvious question is why?Well,our pal made it clear above,while the American conservatives hinted in their countless debates with the likes of Rosie.The conservatives view the left as wrong because they consider it stupid(since it's cutting the crap moment).The left thinks the right is wrong because it's evil.Even the terminology indicates that.Bleeding heart liberal,treehugger,naive vs racist,hatemonger,oppressor.It really looks like apples and oranges.
The problem is that while the solution for stupidity is education,something that implies dialogue the solution for evil is conflict.You don't tolerate evil,you annihilate it.

I really hope some way for dialogue that allows everyone to have their say and be listened will be found.The market for ideas must stay opened or the men of the word will leave way for the men of the sword.That's it,I paraphrased Kennedy ,twice.

[Double Edge]

the solution for evil is conflict.You don't tolerate evil,you annihilate it.

Do you see Brievik as evil ?

Murderer, yes.

[USSWisconsin]

Do you see Brievik as evil ?

Murderer, yes.

I do see breivik as evil, the manifesto has ideas in it that are controversial, perhaps not all of it should be considered evil - but breivik is very evil IMO. Murderers can have understandable motives - the motives for murdering innocent strangers are usually evil, murdering children -always evil. This was no military attack, it wasn't even aimed at politicians, the victims were defenseless kids and civilians.

[Blue]

That's just the bridge from nationalism to wider racism; he doesn't favour or want a nation that upholds his principles, he wants a (White, Christian) Europe that does. That's basically the separation between nationalist groups and the "Eurabia" hatemonger crowd to which he belongs.

Exactly...and thats what sad about the American MSM is they can't tell the difference btwn a christian right winger and basically a neo-nazi or klansman(whichever racist shoe fits best).

[Blue]

As a member of the Irish Labour Party this is not just an affront to democracy but also a family affair. Our brothers and sisters in the international Labour and Socialist movement have suffered a cruel blow - how many future leaders in politics, the labour movement and wider society were gunned down by a fringist who sees skin colour and religion as an epic apocolyptic battle? His hatred of 'cultural Marxists' (including the one that competed on Norway's got Talent or the 14 year old activist) are signs not of insanity but one who watches Glenn Beck.

Of all the things I have ever read posted on the WAB, this (in its entirety, I didn't find the whole thing worth reposting) is the most intellectually dishonest, innaccurate, insulting load of crap I have ever read. Congrats Crooks, you have hit a record low.

[Blue]

In America, an armed or simply brave citizen usually takes down nutjobs before they get to mow down that many people. The money they spent on roses could have bought a lot of guns or self-defense classes. Not to take anything away from rembrance and compassion, but how you respond to threats decides whether you get attacked again. I think they should get angry. Just MHO.