Bomb rocks government offices in Oslo, two said dead

[antimony]

I disagree about the double standard.This guy,like the ones in Arizona,Columbine,Virginia Tech and a few places in Germany and Finland that I can't remember now are insane.Mumbai,Beslan,Buddionovsk,Nord-Ost were part of a plan.

If this guy was indeed from the religion of peace, would you have bought into the "insanity" argument as quickly?

[Mihais]

I'm sorry,I think I already addressed that.

[Dago]

If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment. [1] However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society.

That's the only thing that can hold him beyond the "21 year" maximum sentence, as I doubt the laws of Norway will change the law of maximum sentence from this event.

[kato]

You are using this as a club to knock all the right wing groups, yes ?

If a marxist bombed a paramilitary neonazi group in say Poland we'd call it political terrorism too. Or if someone shot people like Jean-Marie Le Pen or Alessandra Mussolini. No matter whether such notions would be publicly supported or not. A group's image is formed by the repercussions of its members' acts. Kant's Third Maxim reflecting upon social group interaction.

Mod it if you want to though.

That's the only thing that can hold him beyond the "21 year" maximum sentence, as I doubt the laws of Norway will change the law of maximum sentence from this event.

The maximum sentence is called "containment" (forvaring). It consists of 21 years default imprisonment plus a review of whether the person represents a "danger to society" every five years in the time following that until their death or release (which may only happen if the person is no longer a "danger to society").

[Dago]

The maximum sentence is called "containment" (forvaring). It consists of 21 years default imprisonment plus a review of whether the person represents a "danger to society" every five years in the time following that until their death or release (which may only happen if the person is no longer a "danger to society").

Exactly what I quoted.

That is the only thing that can keep him beyond the "21" years. As I doubt, Norway will change it's laws.

[kato]

Considering the crime is already committed any law change wouldn't affect him anyway.

[Double Edge]

If a marxist bombed a paramilitary neonazi group in say Poland we'd call it political terrorism too. Or if someone shot people like Jean-Marie Le Pen or Alessandra Mussolini. No matter whether such notions would be publicly supported or not. A group's image is formed by the repercussions of its members' acts. Kant's Third Maxim reflecting upon social group interaction.

I'm fine with the term political terrroism but in a way its redundant because all terrorism is political or at least has political goals. Your previous description was a little bit more encompassing.

I disagree about the double standard.This guy,like the ones in Arizona,Columbine,Virginia Tech and a few places in Germany and Finland that I can't remember now are insane.Mumbai,Beslan,Buddionovsk,Nord-Ost were part of a plan.

So if its a lone wolf then its insanity because its not part of a larger plan.

Would you also consider Tim McVeigh insane ? His freemen in Montana did not think too highly of the US govt.

For me this guy is insane because of his choice of locations, targets & methods.

[Dago]

Considering the crime is already committed any law change wouldn't affect him anyway.

Of course it could, the legislature could introduce any bill or law that would retroactively be applied. IE. The only thing preventing such, if it were legislation, which could obviously could be replaced by legislation. Unless of course you are familiar with Norway Constitution, which I am not.

[kato]

Article 97 of the Norwegian Constitution explicitly prohibits retroactive laws ("no law must be given retroactive effect"). Just like in the constitutions of most countries in the world, and in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Countries that permit retroactive criminal laws are an oddity, and restricted to a handful Arab and Pacific nations.

[Bigfella]

So they can't sentence this guy to consecutive terms for either each murder or at least for each event? I suggest we hold off on the dissection of the Norwegian legal system until we see how the case pans out.

[Dago]

Article 97 of the Norwegian Constitution explicitly prohibits retroactive laws ("no law must be given retroactive effect"). Just like in the constitutions of most countries in the world, and in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Countries that permit retroactive criminal laws are an oddity, and restricted to a handful Arab and Pacific nations.

We'll if it's in the constitution, it looks like there would need to be a ratification of the constitution, to allow a law to be applied retroactively, and we'll that will certainly not happen.

[Dago]

So they can't sentence this guy to consecutive terms for either each murder or at least for each event? I suggest we hold off on the dissection of the Norwegian legal system until we see how the case pans out.

Apparently, the maximum sentence that can be given is 21 years. That is the maximum not per offense, but maximum sentence totaled that a judge can sentence this person. My question is, if statue of limitations does not apply, why not just charge the defendant for a handful of murder, or maybe just one murder now, and then 21 years from now charge him for another, and then finally charge him for all murders?

[Dago]

Oh by the way, the media is now quoting him : ""He has said that he believed the actions were atrocious, but that in his head they were necessary," defense lawyer Geir Lippestad told TV2 news." I'm sure the media will quickly forward more comming "quotes" from him deemed newsworthy. LOL.

[kato]

My question is, if statue of limitations does not apply, why not just charge the defendant for a handful of murder, or maybe just one murder now, and then 21 years from now charge him for another, and then finally charge him for all murders?

The Norwegian Penal Code prevents that:

§ 62. If any person has by one or more acts committed more than one felony or misdemeanour punishable by imprisonment or detention, a joint custodial sentence shall be imposed which must be more severe than the highest minimum penalty prescribed for any of the felonies or misdemeanours and must in no case exceed the highest penalty prescribed for any of them by more than 50 per cent.
§ 64. If any person who has already been sentenced is convicted of a felony or misdemeanour committed before the sentence was pronounced, the provisions of sections 62 and 63 shall as far as possible be applied in determining the penalty.

The statute of limitations for murder is 25 years in Norway btw ("25 years when imprisonment for a term not exceeding 21 years may be imposed").

[Bigfella]

I'm going to leave the lawyering for the lawyers.

Just a point here to convey scale - Norway has a very low homicide rate - lower than any US state (even the really safe ones) & even lower tha nthe safer Australian states. The number of homicides in Norway annually sit in the low 30s. So, in one day Norway has suffered something like 3 times its annual number of homicides. Absolutely devastating.