Bloody outcome in Kiev, Feb.19, 2014

[cyppok]

This is what happens when a president outright lies to his people and then does a one-eighty on them. This is what happens when blackmail and coercion are utilized to fulfill a "Greater Russia" fantasy.

Millions of Ukrainians today do not want to live in a Putinesque "Little Russia" and are fed up with the corrupt kleptocracy of his puppet Yanukovych.

Can't say I disagree at all with those sentiments.

You mean lets play a "BLUE" and "ORANGE" game and see whom skrews people more?
Opposition promised nothing besides EU/FTA, absolutely nothing. They had people in December, they lost them when the time came to stand for something and they didn't.

Right now Yanukovich is the elected official you can argue about fair/unfair, corrupt, etc... he has support, it actually increased into these protests in his support base of the country.

Yep, "Russia" is to blame *sarcasm*... everyone has interests and everyone pushes them on the world stage by any means necessary, or are you really naive that there are forces of good and evil?
Millions of Ukranians also would rather live in Russia or customs union because they are fed up with rules changing every few years. [they also count, don't they? or are they traitors and should be hanged since they disagree? cause that's what those marching nationalists slogans are. "if you disagree with them you are a traitor" "and traitors are to be hanged when they come to power"]

THERE IS NO PANACEA!!! THERE WON'T BE A MAGIC FIX IF SOMEONE POWER CHANGES HANDS, it always gets worse after a revolution, always. From France, to Russia, to China, to pick a country.

Do you remember when Yanukovich was in opposition? do you remember why he got elected? what he promised?
Language rights, improved relations with Russia for trade, gas prices, and yes they did decide to support Eu/FTA integration but if it was mutually exclusive with Russian relations they picked their economic interests instead and lied to those whom wanted the Eu/Fta agreement.

I also remember Yuschenko saying as soon as he gets into power the business tax will be streamlined and they will keep the standard business (flat tax)? didn't he lie as well?

So a politician lied you are surprised by a politician lying? really?

http://www.unian.info/politics/88627...nal-court.html
P.S. the asymmetric bargaining when I mentioned it didn't pertain to opposition only but also to EU and US. They are pushing sanctions against the gov't officials which means their only defense and survival rests on sovereignty assertions. Like I mentioned in my thread. They are asserting and using force and sovereignty to retaliate. The EU is being extremely stupid right now because at this point Ukraine is a policy taker vis a vis them. Once the situation stabilizes they will become a policy maker vis a vis EU.

My guess is to solidify a sovereign stance they will go towards economic policy levers in the trade sphere.

[Minskaya]

THERE IS NO PANACEA!!! THERE WON'T BE A MAGIC FIX IF SOMEONE POWER CHANGES HANDS

Not in the short term. It will take generations to undue what was installed during previous generations.

[Mihais]

Heard this joke this morning,but it sort of rings plausible.

'' After months of internicine fighting,the international community finally does something for Ukraine.Seeing the American tanks rolling in Kiev the protesters begin to shout-'FREEDOM,FREEDOM. The tankers reply :-Niet freedom,Halloween.''

[snapper]

[cyppok]

??????? ?????????? ???????? ??????????? ? ???? - ?.?. ???????? ?????? ?? ????? ????????????? ??????????????? ??????? ? ???????? - LB.ua
Translates roughly:

"(interim) Minister of Defense confirms sending paratroopers to Kiev to protect arsenal and weapons storage."
"also can no longer provide guarantees for military non intervention"
Hrytsenko defense minister ordered troops to take part in conflict

Regions start talking about referendum on constitutional amendments < News < Home
Food for thought...


my guess is if provoked they will retaliate.

??? ??????? ???? ? ??????? ??????? ?????? - ????? ????????????? ?? ??????????. - LB.ua

Remember me mentioning retaliation against opposition... yep here it comes in slow form.

"SBU opens criminal investigation against several 'unnamed' politicians for attempt to take power"

???????, ?????? ? ????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ??????? - ???????? ? ?????? ????? ?????????? ??????????? ???. - LB.ua
EU Sanctions coming as well.

[Mihais]

The Army doing anything means a Slovenia at best.Their loyalties can't be different from the rest of the country.Wrt capabilities,with the exception of the units formerly deployed in Irak(mostly paras),they're not likely to be capable of handling such situations.

Also,the paras aren't ordered to do anything but guard weapons depots.Given what just happened in the western regions,it's no surprise they don't want protesters getting guns.
The issue here is they need paras to do such tasks and that pretty much supports what I wrote above.

[cyppok]

The Army doing anything means a Slovenia at best.Their loyalties can't be different from the rest of the country.Wrt capabilities,with the exception of the units formerly deployed in Irak(mostly paras),they're not likely to be capable of handling such situations.

Also,the paras aren't ordered to do anything but guard weapons depots.Given what just happened in the western regions,it's no surprise they don't want protesters getting guns.
The issue here is they need paras to do such tasks and that pretty much supports what I wrote above.

the halloween joke?

[Doktor]

the halloween joke?

It wasn't a bad joke. Wonder which tanks will the Russians take for this ;)

WRT using the army, anyone with 2 grams of grey matter in their head would lock them in the barracks and keep them there at any cost.

Mihais, the Yugo Army intervention in Slovenia was just a show. They never had serious intentions to fight the Slovenes.

[Mihais]

Yep.My point.They can't do much and they don't want to do anything either.

At best,they'll be like the Lebanese army in the 80's.Everybody around is fighting,yet they can't control them.At worst they will like the JNA in 1990.They'll break and start fighting each other.

[Mihais]

Idiot chekists.The video is quite tough,for those sensitive.From what I gather(my Russian is quite poor,besides not being Ukrainian ),the crowd is breaking in the building of the SBU,the security service in Khmelnitsky Oblast.At least one person is killed with a burst and at least another one wounded.

While I can understand the regulations and the need to defend a military establishment with lethal force,whoever planned the defense of this needs to be whipped in public and stripped of rank.You don't let a critical facility like that without protection.That Colonel or Major General in charge of the SBU has several hundreds officers.Every non essential personnel could and should have been in front of the building.Front rank with non-lethal weapons.Second rank with AK.You can fire blanks in the air.You don't shoot people for the sake of it.

[Doktor]

We are former KGB. We have our weapons here and noone will ever dare to enter our premises.

What can possibly go wrong?

I am pretty confident that this type of guys are feeling so secure in their HQs, they really think among those lines.

[Mihais]

We are former KGB. We have our weapons here and noone will ever dare to enter our premises.

What can possibly go wrong?

I am pretty confident that this type of guys are feeling so secure in their HQs, they really think among those lines.

Bloody idiot probably tried to shoot at legs,from below.He forgot there were stairs outside.So he shot the woman in the head and the fatty in the stomach.Luckily for him,the bullet exited clean,without hitting anything vital.Being very close range,the speed was high.

The bad part (for them) is that there is no security outside.Back in 89,the blue eyed boys quickly came under Army command.No DSS HQ was this exposed.They may have been commies,but still were classified things there.

This folks have no police guarding them and no alternate course of action.They are starting to lose their heads.

[snapper]

Medical donations can be made here; Fund Medical Needs of People on Maidan by Mariya Dmytriv - GoFundMe Feel free to share.

[MrSecond]

Idiot chekists.

What idiotic? If you take a stick and try to break into state security building you must expect some consecuenses, don't you?
It's not a play, people die today in Kiev.

But first they'd better to shoot at air, not at people.

Woman shot and killed by Capitol police after chaotic chase from White House

A woman who tried to force her car through a White House security fence Thursday afternoon was shot and killed by police after a 12-block chase past the Capitol, which was locked down for a half-hour, authorities said.

The suspect — a dental hygienist with a history of mental issues, according to sources — had an 18-month old daughter with her who was not hurt, police said.

"She was using the car as a weapon," one source said.

[Doktor]

It just got up to the next level...

Ukraine’s security service has announced it is launching a counter-terror operation. Radicals have seized over 1,500 firing arms and 100,000 bullets in the last 24 hours, the service said.

http://rt.com/news/weapons-protesters-kiev-police-745/