The Kashmir Problem

[Luke Gu]

Where is the matter of Kashmir than it also knowned that according to the agreement of 1947 Kashmir is the part of Pakistan not India.

Can you give me the agreement 。I just know the agreement decide to let Kashmiris choose which nation they want to join。

[pChan]

Can you give me the agreement 。I just know the agreement decide to let Kashmiris choose which nation they want to join。

There is no agreement. The guy is either trolling or is completely mis-informed. UN resolutions are just outdated Nehruvian stupidity in India's eyes.

[Luke Gu]

The guy is either trolling or is completely mis-informed. UN resolutions are just outdated Nehruvian stupidity in India's eyes.

No matter if it's outdated to India，it's UN resolutions。Why did Kashmir not hold that voting？instead of it is the second India-Pakistan War。

[payeng]

No matter if it's outdated to India，it's UN resolutions。Why did Kashmir not hold that voting？instead of it is the second India-Pakistan War。

Holding election regarding the faith of a region of a country for an alien cause is never a feasible action by any government.

it is like PRC putting an election regarding the faith of its province to decide, either they would like to be an integral part of PRC or declare itself as a sovereign land.

[Tronic]

Can you give me the agreement 。I just know the agreement decide to let Kashmiris choose which nation they want to join。

No matter if it's outdated to India，it's UN resolutions。Why did Kashmir not hold that voting？instead of it is the second India-Pakistan War。

You're perfectly correct in your own perspective, but the ground story is a bit different. If a plebiscite has to be held for Kashmir, do you not agree that it should be held for both Indian Kashmir and Pakistani Kashmir?

Now the problem arises; in Pakistani Kashmir, the ethnic Kashmiri population has been outnumbered by the migration of Pakistani Mirpuri Punjabis into Pak Kashmir which has drastically changed the demographics in that area (a leaf Pakistan took right out of China's Tibet-Han migrations). Unlike Pakistan, India has had a law, which it still has till this date which bars any non-Kashmiri Indians from buying or owning property in that state.

So, if a plebiscite must be held, than to make it fair to both sides, should India not remove that law, allow Indians to mass migrate into Indian Kashmir, and then hold the plebiscite???

Because, as far as the Pakistanis are concerned, they have set their dirty game up quite well, having swamped their side of Kashmir with ethnic Pakistani Punjabis and at the same time, using their terror groups to mass murder, bomb, and kill Hindu Kashmiris and drive them out of their homes. 2 decades ago, Kashmir valley had a 20% Hindu population, today, they have less than 2%, most have been made refugees living in camps in other parts of Kashmir, and some have migrated to other parts of India.

[Luke Gu]

Now the problem arises; in Pakistani Kashmir, the ethnic Kashmiri population has been outnumbered by the migration of Pakistani Mirpuri Punjabis into Pak Kashmir which has drastically changed the demographics in that area (a leaf Pakistan took right out of China's Tibet-Han migrations).

Tronic，I doubt whether you are confusing me。The solution is created in 1948，I don't think Pakistani have enough time to set their dirty game up at that time，so I think you just miss a chance to solve the problem。And after The first India-Pakistan war，India controlled two-thirds of Kashmir land and three-quarters of the population，I think India have more Advantages than Pakistani in the Referendum if you can give Kashmiris
A better life。

[Yusuf]

Luke,
Oh the Kashmiris in India have a better life. Its been ruined by militancy from the other side, but they are certainly better off on this side of the border.

There cannot be a plebicite as already mentioned before. The demographics have changed.

The most important thing about the issue is that Pakistan says it is giving moral support to the people in Kashmir to let them chose what they want. If that is the case, then they should not have much at stake for someone else unless they covet the full land themselves.
For Pakistan is all about trying to get all the land for itself and has nothing to do with the wishes and aspirations of the Kashmiris.

Let me add one more thing. It has moved far beyond the traditional reasons. Now there is water that is at stake. Pakistans lifeline goes from Indian Kashmir. India can turn off the tap and make Pakistan into desert. So getting that land for itself will make it free from Indias dictat. Though there is this Indus water treaty, but if India choses to, it can walk out of that treaty and threaten Pakistan to resolve the Kashmir issue or else it will divert Indus waters. Why India has not done it so far is not known to me. But it is a very good weapon India has against Pakistan.

[n21]

Tronic，I doubt whether you are confusing me。The solution is created in 1948，I don't think Pakistani have enough time to set their dirty game up at that time，so I think you just miss a chance to solve the problem。And after The first India-Pakistan war，India controlled two-thirds of Kashmir land and three-quarters of the population，I think India have more Advantages than Pakistani in the Referendum if you can give Kashmiris
A better life。

Just a word about the better life thingi.

Indian Kashmir have the least number of people under poverty line than any state in India.
And all they export is fruits!

On the other hand,do find what is the state of people in Pakistan part of Kashmir.

Plus you also need to learn more the conditions of the so called referendum.
The first condition was Pakistan,not India has to pulled back it's troops.

It never happened.

[Luke Gu]

Oh the Kashmiris in India have a better life. Its been ruined by militancy from the other side, but they are certainly better off on this side of the border.

So，you should have confidence on your fellow citizen in Kashmir。

If that is the case, then they should not have much at stake for someone else unless they covet the full land themselves.

Does India don't have this avarice？

The first condition was Pakistan,not India has to pulled back it's troops.

So you have conflicts on the issue of troop withdrawal 。

Plus you also need to learn more the conditions of the so called referendum.

Yes，I never experience it。

[payeng]

So，you should have confidence on your fellow citizen in Kashmir。

One thing you should take into notice is that, in this game of psychological warfare, Pakistan had not yet proved itself successful right after the 1947 Indo-Pak war, even after going hands in hands with Terrorists. Yes India have got causalities because war is fought in the Indian side of boarder, people are disturbed by this tiring and never ending war. The tactics of psychological warfare has been implemented be Pakistan right after the days of partition but they have failed miserably, of cause it has effected India too, but nevertheless to the point of losing confidence of its people, Yes India have confidence of its citizens so we have democratic elections here and the results are self explanatory.

So you have conflicts on the issue of troop withdrawal 。

The conflict in India's POV is, Indian troops are positioned defensively and on guard, while Pakistani troops are to support infiltration under the cover of artillery fire and some times even doing clear violation of LoC, in such a case Pakistan's petitioned to reduce troops by India is questionable and India's action stands justified.

[Luke Gu]

The conflict in India's POV is, Indian troops are positioned defensively and on guard, while Pakistani troops are to support infiltration under the cover of artillery fire and some times even doing clear violation of LoC

Oh，it seems all is Pak's wrong and India have no responsibility to the land dispute though is India refuse to Pakistan's petitioned of reduce troops。Pak also can claim they want to make peace but India refuse to her。

[pChan]

Oh，it seems all is Pak's wrong and India have no responsibility to the land dispute though is India refuse to Pakistan's petitioned of reduce troops。Pak also can claim they want to make peace but India refuse to her。

A lot of blame rests with pakistan primarily because its arming & facilitating active hostilities in kashmir. From Indian POV it is in an active state of war in kashmir. Insurgents/freedom-fighters or whatever you would like to call them cross over the LOC to kill Indian troops. Sometime they kill families of Indian military as was the recent case in Jammu. In this atmosphere it is ludicrous for you to argue that pak wants to "reduce troops".

I do concede your point about India stone-walling on kashmir issue at diplomatic level.

[Tronic]

Tronic，I doubt whether you are confusing me。The solution is created in 1948，I don't think Pakistani have enough time to set their dirty game up at that time，so I think you just miss a chance to solve the problem。And after The first India-Pakistan war，India controlled two-thirds of Kashmir land and three-quarters of the population，I think India have more Advantages than Pakistani in the Referendum if you can give Kashmiris
A better life。

Luke, I suggest you go and study those UN referendums which India proposed. It was Pakistan, not India, which broke those agreements. The deal was that both the armies in Kashmir be withdrawn from Kashmir before a plebiscite be held. The Pakistanis simply refused to withdraw, asking India to withdraw first; and no army in the world would pull back from an aggressor first whose goal was to capture all of Kashmir. So watch where you throw the blame for the failed UN resolutions. Better study those first before throwing the blame around.

[Luke Gu]

So watch where you throw the blame for the failed UN resolutions. Better study those first before throwing the blame around.

Tronic，I just want to Remind you that Not all things are the fault of Pakistan。When I read the posts about it，all you guys are talking about the the mistakes of Pakistan。I don't think India have no responsibility to Kashmir。

A lot of blame rests with pakistan primarily because its arming & facilitating active hostilities in kashmir.

What about arming & facilitating ？I don't think it's kind。

[antimony]

Tronic，I doubt whether you are confusing me。The solution is created in 1948，I don't think Pakistani have enough time to set their dirty game up at that time，so I think you just miss a chance to solve the problem。And after The first India-Pakistan war，India controlled two-thirds of Kashmir land and three-quarters of the population，I think India have more Advantages than Pakistani in the Referendum if you can give Kashmiris
A better life。

Luke,

There is a segment in the Indian Constitution called Article 370 (feel free to look it up) which gives the State of Jammu & Kashmir powers that the other Indian States do not enjoy. Also non Kashmiris are forbidden to purchase land or property in the state. Add to this the fact that Kashmiri hindus have been largely driven away from the valley. This puts the Indian situation at a disadvantage with POK, where Pakistan has ensured that Punjabi migration have rendered the Kashmiri population somewhat irrelevant