The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[Officer of Engineers]

Plausible Deniability. Putin had it.

Precisely.

And despite all that, the Russian intelligence agencies never stopped their espionage activities on American soil.

And neither did we. We were especially concerned as whom the coup plotters were and were they our friends or enemies. We monitored the Chechen Wars to the point where we had estimated civilian casualties of that war that Moscow to this date did not publish. We also knew who sided with Putin and who didn't. So, we did not drop the ball on this one. At this time, however, we knew far more of them than they did of us, mainly because they were too busy staying low, getting out of dodge, staying alive, or getting killed.

I don't agree that Russian meddling in US elections would lead to a nuclear war. That's simply a bridge too far.

That's not the point. The Russians used our Consitutional Rights against us - Free Speech. That is nothing illegal about publishing your thoughts or lying in public. Putin could have gone much further - openly buying votes for example but he had the sense to know where the line was and he would not/did not cross it - especially when all the intel he had said Clinton was going to win. He was as much surprised that Trump won as anyone. Therefore, he had the sense NOT to push his luck, especially when his intel told him anymore effort would be detrimental.

You may not remember Pristina Airport but Putin and I do. Putin used the same legal justifications we did for Georgia and Chechnya. He also remembered an American General, in an unnecessary war started by an American President, was ready to punch through Russian lines to stop Russian Peacekeepers from landing at Pristina. The only thing that stopped it was a British General refusing to order Canadian troops to push through Russian lines. That President also happened to be named Clinton. WWIII is not out a bridge too far.

[TopHatter]

Precisely.

And that's why he wasn't running a risk of war by interfering in the 2016 Election.

And neither did we. We were especially concerned as whom the coup plotters were and were they our friends or enemies. We monitored the Chechen Wars to the point where we had estimated civilian casualties of that war that Moscow to this date did not publish. We also knew who sided with Putin and who didn't. So, we did not drop the ball on this one. At this time, however, we knew far more of them than they did of us, mainly because they were too busy staying low, getting out of dodge, staying alive, or getting killed.

Actually we did. Once the Soviet Union fell, Moscow became an instant backwater posting for CIA agents and Langley's Russia House was relegated to an Old Folks Home manned by supposed "fuddy-duddy Cold Warriors". Even as recently as the Obama-Romney presidential debate, Obama scoffed at Russia as being America's Number One Geopolitical Foe.

That's not the point. The Russians used our Consitutional Rights against us - Free Speech. That is nothing illegal about publishing your thoughts or lying in public. Putin could have gone much further - openly buying votes for example but he had the sense to know where the line was and he would not/did not cross it - especially when all the intel he had said Clinton was going to win. He was as much surprised that Trump won as anyone. Therefore, he had the sense NOT to push his luck, especially when his intel told him anymore effort would be detrimental.

Sir, Putin put exactly as much effort into interfering with the election process of the United States as he needed to in order to destabilize and sow doubt in that process. Such black propaganda efforts are age-old KGB tactics and goals.

With Trump taking office, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

You may not remember Pristina Airport but Putin and I do. Putin used the same legal justifications we did for Georgia and Chechnya. He also remembered an American General, in an unnecessary war started by an American President, was ready to punch through Russian lines to stop Russian Peacekeepers from landing at Pristina. The only thing that stopped it was a British General refusing to order Canadian troops to push through Russian lines. That President also happened to be named Clinton. WWIII is not out a bridge too far.

Sir I remember Pristina Airport quite well. And nowhere in the historiography have I read how Bill Clinton was the one stabbing his finger on a map of the airport yelling "I don't give a damn how many Russians are there, punch a whole through their lines and take that damn airport!". All fingers instead point to overreach by a particularly asinine and insistent SACEUR, who was subsequently and justifiably sacked as a result of his idiocy.

I'm sorry Sir, but your assessment of Hilary Clinton initiating a nuclear war against Russia for interfering in the U.S. election simply is not credible.

[Parihaka]

I'm sorry Sir, but your assessment of Hilary Clinton initiating a nuclear war against Russia for interfering in the U.S. election simply is not credible.

Well, to be fair she did put direct military responses on the table

Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Party presidential nominee and former US secretary of state, has said that if she becomes president cyberattacks against US interests will be treated "like any other attack" – and that includes military action.

The candidate, who has been investigated by the FBI over use of a private email server to store classified material, was speaking on the campaign trial at the American Legion National Conference in Cincinnati, Ohio on 31 August.

"As President, I will make it clear that the United States will treat cyberattacks just like any other attack. We will be ready with serious political, economic, and military responses," she told the attendees, largely made up of veterans and their supporters.

"We are going to invest in protecting our governmental networks and our national infrastructure," she continued. "I want us to lead the world in setting the rules in cyberspace. If America doesn't, others will."

The speech made a number of references to the rise in cybercrime – and the various rival nation states that Clinton asserted are currently attacking the US. Most recently, Kremlin-linked hackers were suspected of hacking into the computer networks of the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

"We need to respond to evolving threats from states like Russia, China, Iran and North Korea," Clinton said in the speech. "We need a military that is ready and agile so it can meet the full range of threats and operate on short notice across every domain – not just land, sea, air and space but also cyberspace.

"You've seen reports. Russia's hacked into a lot of things, China has hacked into a lot of things. Russia even hacked into the Democratic National Committee, maybe even some state election systems. So we have got to step up our game. Make sure we are well defended and able to take the fight to those who go after us."

[Parihaka]

which is, of course, why she called Trump to concede within 15 minutes of the race being called by AP, and then gave a concession speech the morning after the election calling Trump the President, offering her assistance, and telling her supporters that they owed Trump "an open mind and the chance to lead."

Ummm, yeah

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’ - The Washington Post
Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances' (nbcnews.com)

Do try to keep up with more recent events....

[Officer of Engineers]

I'm sorry Sir, but your assessment of Hilary Clinton initiating a nuclear war against Russia for interfering in the U.S. election simply is not credible.

For fuck sakes, Joe. You're better than this! It's NOT what Hillary will do. It's what PUTIN THINKS SHE WILL DO!What Putin Thinks What the enemy WILL COMMITT to the ATTACK!

[Officer of Engineers]

What I find disturbing is that once this fiorum examined every bit of intel to death, now, respected forum members take at face value extremely questionable intel.

[Officer of Engineers]

Actually we did. Once the Soviet Union fell, Moscow became an instant backwater posting for CIA agents and Langley's Russia House was relegated to an Old Folks Home manned by supposed "fuddy-duddy Cold Warriors". Even as recently as the Obama-Romney presidential debate, Obama scoffed at Russia as being America's Number One Geopolitical Foe.

Well for fuck sakes yeah! Did we not screamed that Putin was up to no good? Did we not screamed that Obama abandoning nuclear retalliation against NPT chemcial strikes was a bad idea? Did Obama reverse course on everything we screamed about? Were we right? Obama may have taken HIS EYES OFF BUT I assured you that we did not! You want proof? We gave Obama a list of targets to hit to cripple Assad's chemical strike capabilities.

Sir, Putin put exactly as much effort into interfering with the election process of the United States as he needed to in order to destabilize and sow doubt in that process. Such black propaganda efforts are age-old KGB tactics and goals.

With Trump taking office, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.

No shit, Sherlock. The point remains that Putin DID NOT EXPECT Trump to win.

Sir I remember Pristina Airport quite well. And nowhere in the historiography have I read how Bill Clinton was the one stabbing his finger on a map of the airport yelling "I don't give a damn how many Russians are there, punch a whole through their lines and take that damn airport!". All fingers instead point to overreach by a particularly asinine and insistent SACEUR, who was subsequently and justifiably sacked as a result of his idiocy.

I'm sorry Sir, but your assessment of Hilary Clinton initiating a nuclear war against Russia for interfering in the U.S. election simply is not credible.

That is the freaking point! Putin would NEVER ALLOW a subordinate to run away nuclear trigger. Bill Clinton allowed Clark to start WWIII over a 100 man company?. Would Putin allow Hillary an excuse to give the same leadway to another American General?

[TopHatter]

For fuck sakes, Joe. You're better than this! It's NOT what Hillary will do. It's what PUTIN THINKS SHE WILL DO!What Putin Thinks What the enemy WILL COMMITT to the ATTACK!

Ok sir, I'm tracking now. My apologies, I didn't realize that's what you were trying to say.

[TopHatter]

What I find disturbing is that once this fiorum examined every bit of intel to death, now, respected forum members take at face value extremely questionable intel.

Probably because it's all completely within the character, capability and motivation of Putin.

[TopHatter]

Well for fuck sakes yeah! Did we not screamed that Putin was up to no good? Did we not screamed that Obama abandoning nuclear retalliation against NPT chemcial strikes was a bad idea? Did Obama reverse course on everything we screamed about? Were we right? Obama may have taken HIS EYES OFF BUT I assured you that we did not! You want proof? We gave Obama a list of targets to hit to cripple Assad's chemical strike capabilities.

Sir, I'm not questioning any of that. What I'm saying, and CIA officer memoirs have confirmed, that the U.S. intelligence community turned away from Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union...but the Russian intelligence community never stopped viewing the United States as its Main Enemy and never turned away from trying to subvert it.

No shit, Sherlock. The point remains that Putin DID NOT EXPECT Trump to win.

OK, but...that point has never been in dispute, certainly not by me.

That is the freaking point! Putin would NEVER ALLOW a subordinate to run away nuclear trigger. Bill Clinton allowed Clark to start WWIII over a 100 man company?. Would Putin allow Hillary an excuse to give the same leadway to another American General?

Well, Putin wouldn't allow someone to do that, of course. But Clinton was almost certainly not aware of what Clark was doing regarding Pristina Airport until it was all over. Unless I'm missing something again.

[TopHatter]

Well, to be fair she did put direct military responses on the table

Direct military responses, I can see. A full-on nuclear war, no. But, as the Colonel corrected me, apparently Putin is/was under the impression that if a hypothetical Madame President Clinton had proof of Kremlin-induced election rigging, that she would push the mythical red button on her desk. Given the famous Russian paranoia, I would say that's a definite possibility for that to be in Putin's head.

[TopHatter]

Ummm, yeah

Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’ - The Washington Post
Hillary Clinton says Biden should not concede the election 'under any circumstances' (nbcnews.com)

Do try to keep up with more recent events....

Your second source (NBC) doesn't have anything to do with your initial claim though.

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir, I'm not questioning any of that. What I'm saying, and CIA officer memoirs have confirmed, that the U.S. intelligence community turned away from Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union..

No, we did not. If only to learn whom our friends are and whom our enemies are.

.but the Russian intelligence community never stopped viewing the United States as its Main Enemy and never turned away from trying to subvert it.

Yes, they did. They were far too busy choosing sides than worry about intel work. The fact that they've let Beslan happened after Moscow Theatre slipped through should tell you how focused they were.

Well, Putin wouldn't allow someone to do that, of course.

That's the point. There was a line that Putin would not cross.

But Clinton was almost certainly not aware of what Clark was doing regarding Pristina Airport until it was all over. Unless I'm missing something again.

Clark went to Shinseki (who refused) and then Clinton (also refused) to insert an American task force into Pristina. The point is that had it been an American taks force instead of a Canadian Battle Group, there would have been shooting. Putin was aware of that fact and WOULD NOT commit to an operation as suggested by that article.

[Officer of Engineers]

Direct military responses, I can see. A full-on nuclear war, no. But, as the Colonel corrected me, apparently Putin is/was under the impression that if a hypothetical Madame President Clinton had proof of Kremlin-induced election rigging, that she would push the mythical red button on her desk. Given the famous Russian paranoia, I would say that's a definite possibility for that to be in Putin's head.

Cold Warrior speaking here. We ALWAYS assume the end result is a nuclear exchange anytime shooting occurs between the superpowers. Putin is a Cold Warrior.

[zraver]

Honest answer: Until you can provide independently fact-checked sources every last thing that you said, I'm going regard that list as non-credible.

My original statement: Honest question, we have cash payments from the wife of the mayor of Moscow to Hunter Biden, pics of Joe meeting with other foreign "business" partners of Hunters, the request made to the Swedish House to make a key for Joe so he could meet privately with Hunter's Chinese "business" partners, Hunter's emails saying his dad was in on the take, the unreported income from Hunter shelling out cash to fix up Biden's home, the sudden inexplicable US reversal on Nordstream II, the virtual abandonement of Afghan interpreters including the deportation of at least one already here, kids in cages on the border, Mayorkas signaling Hispanics on the border are welcome, but Cubans fleeing a communist regime are not, the Biden Administration working with social media companies to control the discussion about covid on the internet, Hunters blow straw nose art, at a minimum hundreds of voters were double counted ballots in Fulton County GA, inflation is out of control, young families can't afford homes or find cars to buy..... the list goes on and on and you are still stuck on Trump? Biden is Potus..... He has been for several months, and his entire admin is shady and is a train wreck in fast forward speed..

Moscow Mayor and Joe meeting with forgien "business partners" of Hunter

Despite Media Fact Check Denials, Joe and Hunter Biden Met w/Moscow Mayor | Frontpagemag

Swedish House Key for Joe to meet with Hunter's "Chinese partners"

Hunter Biden 'requested key for "office mate" Joe at space he planned to share with Chinese emissary’, email shows (the-sun.com)

10% to the Big Guy

Who Is ‘The Big Guy’ Hunter Biden Refers to in Emails Regarding Massive China Hedge Fund Deal? by Matt Vespa (townhall.com)

The Big guy is Joe Biden

Biden Whistleblower Tony Bobulinski: Joe Biden’s Claim That He Knew Nothing About Hunter Biden’s China Deals Is A ‘Blatant Lie’ (thefederalist.com)

Hunter giving unreported income in services to Joe Biden (same charge the Trump guy was convicted of)

Hunter Biden engaged in some daddy pay care: Devine (nypost.com)

Nordstream II

Nord Stream 2: Biden administration won't sanction company building controversial Russian gas pipeline - CNNPolitics

Afghan ally being deported

He may get deported over a piece of bread. Hear his message to Biden - CNN Video

Kids in cages

Biden created his own 'kids-in-cages' crisis by reversing Trump's diplomacy (msn.com)

Mayorkas

Mayorkas to Cubans, Haitians: Do not come to the U.S. - POLITICO

Mayorkas confirms illegal immigrants released into U.S. without testing (lawenforcementtoday.com)

Facebook censorship

Biden Spokeswoman Admits Facebook Censoring at Behest of Government | Frontpagemag

Blow straw art

Ethics experts concerned about Hunter Biden’s art show (msn.com)

Fulton County

Search for election fraud in Georgia finds 200 ballots scanned twice (ajc.com)

Inflation

CPI report June 2021: Inflation climbs higher than expected (cnbc.com)

Houses and cars

CPI report June 2021: Inflation climbs higher than expected (cnbc.com)

And considering the last time you gave a list like that, it was just the usual "Here's Trump's Accomplishments" copy-and-paste nonsense and exaggerations that I've seen dozens of times from Trump's followers, I'm pretty sure that the above laundry list is equally non-credible. For starters, the very first item on that list is almost certainly bullshit, but you're parroting Trump's accusations and presenting them as fact.

No, Hunter forgot where he dropped off his laptop. The NYPost has an imaged copy (not hacked, after being abandoned it became property of the computer repair shop). So does the FBI which is why the main FBI child porn investigator signed a warrant to seize it. I already provided that link.

Furthermore, Trump has not gone away, the former Republican Party is still firmly in his grip and he has never been held accountable for the crimes he committed while in office, starting with his inciting of the January 6th insurrection that you care so little about. So yeah, I'm still "stuck on Trump".

How many times do I have to say I want those who engage in political violence to be held accountable; All of them. You seem to be engaging in a pattern of excusing one side but not the other. It doesn't matter if you are for Marius or Sulla, it will not end well for the Republic. Political vengeance and double standards of justice kill representative government. What you are actually advocating for by only wanting one side held to account is the death of our country. The only way out is too hold both sides to the same standards of law and justice.

Anyway, I linked every claim with a valid media or edu source. I'm sure you will find some reason to reject them, cognitive bias is a bitch, but they are all supported by evidence most damningly that laptop.