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  • Economists dump on Trump boast to bring jobs back from China

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump vows to bring back the millions of American jobs lost to China and other foreign competitors if voters put him in the White House.

    Economists say he wouldn't stand a chance: Trump's boundless self-confidence is no match for the global economic forces that took those jobs away.

    Since the beginning of 2000, the U.S. economy has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs. A study published last year by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that between 2 million and 2.4 million jobs were lost to competition from China from 1999 to 2011.

    Announcing his presidential bid June 16, Trump declared: "I'll bring back our jobs from China, from Mexico, from Japan, from so many places. I'll bring back our jobs, and I'll bring back our money."

    Economists were unimpressed. "It's completely implausible," says former Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Alan Blinder, a Princeton University economist who has studied the offshoring of American jobs.

    Companies shifted low-skill jobs to China in the 2000s because American workers couldn't compete with Chinese workers earning around $1 an hour. Now China itself is losing low-wage manufacturing jobs to poorer countries such as Bangladesh and Vietnam.

    If America tried to block foreign-made products and make everything at home, prices would skyrocket and foreign countries would likely retaliate by blocking U.S. goods from their countries. "You can't turn back the clock," Blinder says.

    But there's an even bigger problem for those who want to restore U.S. manufacturing employment (now 12.3 million) to its 1979 peak of 19.6 million: Technology has taken many of those jobs for good. Today's high-tech factories employ a fraction of the workers they used to. General Motors, for example, employed 600,000 in the 1970s. It has 216,000 now — and sells more cars than ever.

    "No matter who becomes president," says economist David Autor of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, "I cannot foresee a scenario where 5 million additional manufacturing jobs ... reappear in the U.S. in the decades ahead."

    That's especially true with U.S. unemployment at a seven-year low 5.3 percent, a rate close to what economists consider full employment.

    "If you took all the jobs we outsourced and brought them back, you'd have negative unemployment," says Harold Sirkin, senior partner at the Boston Consulting Group and an expert on manufacturing competitiveness worldwide. "We'd have to bring in people from other countries to do the work."

    Trump, author of "The Art of the Deal," says he could have protected American jobs by negotiating smarter trade agreements with U.S. competitors. "When was the last time anybody saw us beating, let's say, China in a trade deal?" Trump said in June. "They kill us. I beat China all the time. All the time."

    But economists say trade deals — for all the political heat they generate — play only a modest role in job creation. "Better trade deals are unlikely to be a panacea," says Eswar Prasad, professor of trade policy at Cornell University.

    Prasad says U.S. policymakers should focus more on investing in things that will improve America's competitiveness over the long haul — schools, roads and airports, for example. And Blinder says the U.S. should do more to retrain American workers who lose their jobs to foreign competition.

    Companies often decide where to locate factories and hire people on factors that can change: labor costs, energy bills, transportation expenses, proximity to customers.

    Currently, several of those factors favor the United States over China. The fracking boom has cut energy costs for U.S.-based factories. Chinese wages have soared, while American wages have been flat. In parts of America, land is cheaper than in China.

    So some American companies already are bringing jobs back, and some Chinese companies are investing in plants in America. Last year, for example, Chinese glassmaker Fuyao Glass Industry Group Co. announced plans to take over an abandoned GM plant in Moraine, Ohio, near Dayton, and create 800 jobs.

    The Reshoring Initiative, which encourages companies to bring operations back to America, says the number of manufacturing jobs created in the United States by returning American companies and foreign investors exceeded those lost to offshoring last year by 10,000 — modest, to be sure, but a big change from the massive job outflows of the 1990s and 2000s.

    Trump declared: "I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. I tell you that."

    But Daniel Rosen, partner at the New York economic research firm Rhodium Group, says: "Global direct investment — including from China, Mexico and Japan — is already flowing into the United States, not due to God's political leanings but because the U.S. economy is open both to those who would invest here and those who would decide to move abroad."
    Link
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    This is what drives me nuts about people singing Trump's praises. He's not only a clown but he's a clueless obtuse starry-eyed idiot of a clown.
    People, wake up. This is exactly what happened in 2008. Why oh why does Santayana have be proven right over and over again?
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • He is not even seated and the jobs are coming back

      http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/05/the-r...n-america.html

      http://qz.com/470358/chinese-textile...urcing-the-us/
      Last edited by Doktor; 06 Aug 15,, 07:49.
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        He is not even seated and the jobs are coming back
        I don't think he'll settle for anything less than "crowned"
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • TH,

          This is what drives me nuts about people singing Trump's praises. He's not only a clown but he's a clueless obtuse starry-eyed idiot of a clown.
          People, wake up. This is exactly what happened in 2008
          i have to say, at least you're fair...it's pretty funny how many of the same people who think Obama is arrogant are willing to give a pass (or even support) to someone who makes Obama look like the dictionary definition of modesty.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
            TH,
            i have to say, at least you're fair...
            Thanks :-) If there is one thing I pride myself on, it's fairness. Funny enough, because of that, I sometimes get called a "liberal" or "Democrat" :-D

            Originally posted by astralis View Post
            it's pretty funny how many of the same people who think Obama is arrogant are willing to give a pass (or even support) to someone who makes Obama look like the dictionary definition of modesty.
            I think Trump gets that pass because he's seen as "stickin' it to The Man"...whereas Obama currently IS The Man.

            The same of course was true of when George W Bush (or any Republican president) ordered a military action: He's a bloodthirsty warmonger. When a Democrat orders military strikes, the anti-war crowd is bizarrely muted.
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • Along the same lines, if a leading Dem candidate had been as disrespectful about the military service of someone like McCain as Trump was the ongoing hysterical screeching would be audible from the moon. Also not expecting Ted Cruz to be facing questions about his place of birth or Hilary to be getting questions about combining the Presidency with being a wife/mother from the left (as Palin did). Both sides love to shift dem goalposts.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                Along the same lines, if a leading Dem candidate had been as disrespectful about the military service of someone like McCain as Trump was the ongoing hysterical screeching would be audible from the moon. Also not expecting Ted Cruz to be facing questions about his place of birth or Hilary to be getting questions about combining the Presidency with being a wife/mother from the left (as Palin did). Both sides love to shift dem goalposts.
                Word.

                = = = = =


                Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                [B][SIZE=3]Since the beginning of 2000, the U.S. economy has lost 5 million manufacturing jobs.
                In the 1950s and 1960s, the share of US employees actually making things – “production and nonsupervisory employees” in manufacturing – fell from a high of 34.4% in the second half of 1943 to a low of 19.7% in 1969.

                (I should point out that China had nothing to do with it, and frankly, Japan wasn’t a big factor either. This shift was due to the US economy evolving out of low value-added activities and into higher value-added ones.)

                In the 1970s and 1980s, the ratio dropped to a low of 11.7% (in 1989; see the pattern here? Latest data is lowest . . .). In the 1990s and 2000s, it dipped to 6.21%, and in this decade has held steady, averaging 6.13%.

                Here’s another interesting comparison.

                In absolute numbers, the June figure of 8.7 million is about the same as in 1939. The data I’m using is strictly production workers; no managers or supervisors. Add those in, and the total runs to 12.3 million.



                But, consider this: Prior to 1970, 75-85% of the larger figure were production workers; today, it’s down to barely 70%. Why? Automation seems like as good an answer as any, unless of course, one is seeking to blame some other country.
                Attached Files
                Trust me?
                I'm an economist!

                Comment


                • Pretty good debate...if debate is what it was. Well, it was entertaining.

                  After it was over I narrowed my choices to Kasich and Bush. Part of that was because of what I believe is best for party unity and partly because I believe we need to offer an experienced executive to occupy the White House. Neophytes like Carson and Paul are appealing for their honesty, but would not make good presidents because their learning curve would soak up too much of their term in office.

                  I realize Huckabee is a former governor and executive, but he's too immersed in the Christian right to be a unifying force in the country. Walker is a comer, but it is too early for him. Cruz is too divisive; too conservative. He would get trounced. Cristie does not appeal to me at all. Trump? What can one say? He's not only an ace rabble rouser, but full of populist half-baked truths: (Japan sends millions of cars to US...huh?) Rubio was too glib for my taste; he does not come across as presidential, but neither did Obama in '08. Who'd I miss.

                  The Fox format gave us a chance to get a feel for the candidates. Overall I was impressed with their poise and ability to make points in a short space of time. Of course, there were a lot of mistakes and bull sh*t. Carson erred when he said the US had pledged to protect Ukraine when the latter gave up nukes (the infamous memorandum); he was hilarious when he spoke of operating on people with half a brain,one of which he suspected resides in the White House today. Walker would arms the Ukrainian military. And the jaw dropper--Rubio said God blessed the GOP with a great slate of candidates and shortchanged the Dems... and so it went. As for character and projecting leadership, I give the award to Kasich with honorable mention to Bush.
                  To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                  Comment


                  • JAD,

                    ah, Kasich, the most moderate of the group....and unfortunately, with less name recognition, even amongst Republicans, than the premier of China.

                    he'll go the way of Huntsman, maybe a bit better just because huntsman went out of his way to demonstrate how genteel and moderate he was.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                      JAD,

                      ah, Kasich, the most moderate of the group....and unfortunately, with less name recognition, even amongst Republicans, than the premier of China.

                      he'll go the way of Huntsman, maybe a bit better just because huntsman went out of his way to demonstrate how genteel and moderate he was.
                      But, think Ohio and that means Iowa.

                      Huntsman, a great guy, was from Utah and a Morman--nothing wrong with that except it denied him a base.

                      Not saying you're wrong, but it's too soon to rule Kasich out.
                      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                      Comment


                      • JAD,

                        I think you'll get a kick out of this...:-)

                        http://www.theonion.com/article/frus...ce-refra-51026
                        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                          JAD,

                          I think you'll get a kick out of this...:-)

                          http://www.theonion.com/article/frus...ce-refra-51026
                          The Onion strikes again.
                          To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                          Comment


                          • So, where the GOP candidates stand on housing and student loans?
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                              So, where the GOP candidates stand on housing and student loans?

                              Are you serious?

                              Why be concerned about the mundane when we have Hillary to bash, abortion to bash again, and prove to Fox you are conservative.

                              Doc, your priorities are suspect...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                Who'd I miss.
                                The JV team, especially Carly Fiorina.
                                Trust me?
                                I'm an economist!

                                Comment

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