Southern Border Developments

[Bill]

m21,

to be sure there are. but why don't we see americans out there doing so? (this is actually a question and not me being rhetorical here.) by the laws of economics they should be competing against the mexican fruit-pickers, and whomever can do it for cheaper on the sly would get hired. for that matter we should see the same thing outside the local convenience/hardware store (home depot, for example), where we should see a lot more of those americans waiting outside on a saturday morning looking for a quick temp job and some cash.

after all, those mexicans are running across the border (not a particularly easy task) to pick that fruit, or to move that sofa.

There are a lot of black fruitpickers(no idea how many, but i've seen plenty over the years out in Oklahoma and the midwest, and even here in Pa and Jersey ive seen more than a few, hell, we have VERY FEW illegal mexicans here compared to other places). And there are probably also low income asian fruit pickers too. Certainly enough of them with fruit stands, that's for sure.

Anyway, they are just good hard working people that dont raise a fuss, so you hear nothing of them. That's my take on it.

[texasjohn]

Here is what we should do:

http://www.kerman94.com/mexicotourism.html

:)

[chIEr]

Can someone explain to me how it is at all wrong to isntead of having miles of razor wire and hundreds of guard towers with militia armed with PSG-1's (my brilliant idea) build a completly non-hostile wall. That like saying that some poor guy that lives across the street from you should be able to walk into your house at will and live there and eat your food and contribute no money to your houshold whatsoever and you call the police and they say "oh no, his hosue sucks yours is better let him stay hes poor dont you know." AND on top of that when you attempt to keep him out you are doing something "wrong" or "immoral" makes me so mad




hahahahahahaha

i think its a biger picture , the government dosent do nothing because alot of us companies have a hold on central and southcentral countries, you have to also remember that its not just mexicans its the hole central americas and the south americas the mexican border is just the conduet the us government has forced alot of policies on to wich the mexican government enforces their boerders tighly but it still dosent work, alot of american companies monopolize south american companies i mean in EL SALVADOR for example u see wallmarts there etc **** theres even the us dollar runing there and there in iraq haha and you are wining about someone trying to make an effort to make money? yet alone just move to have a better life for their kids, i mean ur not seing the picture your just wining like most , i remmeber i heard someone talk about gangs taking over the usa by immigrants and blah blah blah immigrants this anf that, its retated anybody in los angeles knows that ms13 was founded in los angeles , 18st wich has so called clickes alll the way in ''lebannon'' it also started in los angeles umongst correctional facilities during the 1930's or 1940's during ww2 well actually during the suit-zoot riotsduring about that time when a bunch of navy men that thought like you decided to beat up every latino/immigrant/ mostly or suit-zoot in sight , **** when i think about it we brought this situation to ourselfs because of people that think like you. instead of winning preassure your/our goverment companies to release investments in southamerica so they could be on a road to stablelising their economy....

[Ray]

So long the fence is on the US side of the border, there is no case.

Rather odd of Mexico to even think of such non issues.

[Kassad]

Did you know:

- That it is basically impossible for one to become a Mexican citizen unless you marry one.

- It is impossible for a non native born Mexican citizen to own land of any size.

- Mexico uses its military to patrol their border with Guatemala and the police and military routinely attack illegal immigrants from their "south of the border"

Learn something new everyday. thanks.

[CMartel]

Since the American public decided to oust the only body (the House of Representatives under Republican control) in the political arena that had any backbone regarding illegal immigration and the construction of a fence, I think the issue is mute.

The Dems certainly won't lift a finger to build a fence.

Our dear President Bush doesn't want one.

There are no presidential candidates I can see who will stump for a fence.

!Viva Meximerica!

[sirpuddingfoot]

I think you mean "the issue is [moot]", and I think you're correct.

Most americans realized that this was silly, protectionist/isolationist, and ultimately pointless.

[omon]

the sad reality is, most homes build by mexicans, landscape industry depends on mexicans, countless number of buisneses employ mexicans, there was a movie about, how all mexicans sudenly disapeared from us, the result was chaos, noting was runing as usual, there is truth in that, us economy depends on cheap laibor, that is why you pay for groceries as much as you pay, not 2x more. in brooklyn lion share of stores, food places, car washes..ect employ mexicans, they pay them half of what americans are willing to work for, take all this away, life would be very different. unfortunatly for us we need mexicans as much as they need us.

if we kick them all out, i don't think we would benefit from that,there's gonna be some nasty consiquenses to deal with.

fence is a good idea, to control them, not entirely eliminate them.

[highsea]

Since the American public decided to oust the only body (the House of Representatives under Republican control) in the political arena that had any backbone regarding illegal immigration and the construction of a fence, I think the issue is mute.

Well, the measure is already signed into law. So if the Dems want to repeal it, they will have to pass another bill, which might or might not be vetoed by the President. The funding is already appropriated, as part of the $33.8 Bn domestic security package.

I don't think Bush was necessarily opposed to the fence, but he wanted a guest worker program included in the package.

[gunnut]

the sad reality is, most homes build by mexicans, landscape industry depends on mexicans, countless number of buisneses employ mexicans, there was a movie about, how all mexicans sudenly disapeared from us, the result was chaos, noting was runing as usual, there is truth in that, us economy depends on cheap laibor, that is why you pay for groceries as much as you pay, not 2x more. in brooklyn lion share of stores, food places, car washes..ect employ mexicans, they pay them half of what americans are willing to work for, take all this away, life would be very different. unfortunatly for us we need mexicans as much as they need us.

That is a farce. We live just fine without Mexicans. They need us more than we need them. Without them, we pay more for our stuff. Without us, they have Mexico. I don't know about you but I think we win hands down here.

As far as that movie goes, it's all Hollywood bullsh!t. The illegals in LA area organized "a day without immigrant" in 2006-05-01, commie day...what a coincidence. Notice they used the word immigrant rather than Mexican, and dropped the "illegal" part.

I asked just about everyone I know how that day affected them. The overwhelming answer was positive. Everyone was happy that traffic was less, we could get by easier, and not many services were interupted. Those that were, just lost a whole day of revenue as shoppers went elsewhere for their food and services.

Due to this unexpected outcome, the illegals hesitated on any future "strikes" in fear of more positive result (negative for them) that might occur.

if we kick them all out, i don't think we would benefit from that,there's gonna be some nasty consiquenses to deal with.

fence is a good idea, to control them, not entirely eliminate them.

Yes, we want to control them and document them, make them go through the proper procedure. This is a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of law. Without rules and laws we're no better than Mexico.

[chIEr]

By Wayne Hommer

Since the launch of the global war against terrorism following the 9/11 attacks, many federal agencies involved in defense and homeland security have been pushed to their limits. The U.S. Army has, in fact, been stretched beyond its capacity, with eight of its 10 divisions this year either preparing for combat operations, conducting combat operations, or recovering from combat operations.

The U.S. Army cannot maintain the current tempo of operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and other areas. It is easy to suggest that the U.S. Army should withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan in a year, but history does not support that assertion. Our forces have been in Bosnia for a decade, and there's still work to do there.

One solution that can be quickly implemented would be to create an American Foreign Legion that could assume a number of duties currently handled by the Army and Marine Corps. Here is my concept for such an organization:

* The American Foreign Legion would consist of three 8,000-man mechanized infantry divisions whose members would be non-U.S. citizens serving under a cadre of regular Army officers.
* Each enlistee would agree to serve in uniform for a minimum of ten years, after which he and his immediate family would be naturalized as American citizens. While serving, each AFL soldier would receive a salary and benefits similar to those received by the active-duty military.
* Initial training would consist of an intense, six-week English-language course for those unable to communicate effectively in English. Following that, the recruit would attend a 12-week Army basic training program. The training focus would be on basic mechanized infantry tactics and security operations. Every graduate would be qualified as a rifleman with specialized training conducted within the AFL division as required.
* The American Foreign Legion would have split responsibilities similar to that of the U.S. Coast Guard for peacetime and wartime conditions.

During peacetime, the AFL would fall under the control of the Department of Homeland Security with a primary mission of augmenting the U.S. Border Patrol in border security operations. Daily operations would include conducting extensive patrols of the border, freeing the U.S. Border Patrol to concentrate its efforts on operating fixed border checkpoints.



When directed by the president, command of the AFL would shift to the Department of Defense. While trained and equipped to carry out high-intensity combat operations, the primary role of the AFL under the DoD would be to serve as a designated peacekeeping force. This would allow regular Army units to concentrate on high-intensity conflict scenarios, and would dramatically increase the overall readiness of the U.S. armed forces.

* The Army can equip the AFL divisions with M113A3 armored personnel carriers currently in storage in the War Reserve Stock, making the units rapidly deployable. In addition, the tracked vehicles will protect the troops from the small-arms, RPG and improvised explosive threats common to low-intensity conflicts. Each AFL division would require roughly 500 M113A3 series vehicles, in addition to a limited number of Humvees, fuelers, LMTV's, and HMMT wreckers.
* Aside from the core mechanized infantry units, each AFL division should include an engineer construction battalion. While the AFL should have no need for combat engineers, construction engineers are in constant demand, particularly in training deployments to Third World nations. The ability to build schools, roads and irrigation systems would contribute significantly to the success of any peacekeeping operation.
* Construction engineers would also be very useful on the U.S. borders with Mexico and Canada. For example, a battalion of engineers could build a substantial secure border fence from the Gulf of Mexico, to the Pacific Ocean in a year, and dramatically improve the security of the border.
* The logical bases for the AFL divisions would be at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., and Fort Bliss, Tex. Infrastructure would be required for the 8,000 troops and estimated 2,000 training cadre for each AFL division.

It would not be difficult for the Pentagon to establish three AFL divisions very quickly. Each AFL division would be manned by roughly 8,000 personnel.

The personnel who would serve in the AFL are already on hand: They are part of the population of illegal immigrants already in the United States.

The Bureau of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) estimates that 700,000 illegal immigrants enter the United States each year, joining an estimated 8 million other illegals already here. Many of them would be glad for a chance to enter and live in the country legally, and serving in the American Foreign Legion with its programmed citizenship reward could provide such an option.

Creating the American Foreign Legion would not come without significant startup costs, but the U.S. Treasury would meanwhile realize additional millions of dollars from tax payments by AFL members rising out of the underground economy of the illegal alien population.

The units would significantly help the regular Army and its troops carry out their primary missions as soldiers and not policemen. The AFL would also provide the Department of Homeland Defense the teeth it needs to be effective.

It is critical to our national security for the Pentagon to ease the strains that the Army is suffering. It is also critical for our national security to have positive control over our borders.

The American Foreign Legion could satisfy both needs.











what i wrote to this ndividual:
and what do you guys think?

thats interesting , such like the the french foreign legion. that could work but there is some people that do not want citizenship that just come to work here and there are people that actually come here to start a new life all together making there kids from wich they brought at a very young age to suffer the consequences. but anyways can such a plan actually work??? i mean the french legion are quite respected but there considered as mercenaries the french pays them to obey and they have more aligence for there comrads i think, they even tried to kill a french president because they were treated as an expendible source of men and to tell you the truth i dont think that is false for a moment to think that latin america has certain hate for the american government i mean theres big US companies controling foreign comtries for example el salvador there in iraq right? the us dollar is currency over there and wallmarts and big US companies have hold over that economy. idunno many of us american people just like to cry about the immigrants when foreign policy makes much of the problem , but nevertheless this is a good idea but give me specifics i mean the french do not accept women for example and there casualty rate in the french foreign legion is 1 out of 10, soldiers there are also trained like a special commando unit , and they differentiate from many stand points of the us armed forces not only because they come from many backrounds but they have a certain motto to '' do the job or die trying'' in some ocations ive heard that unlike the marines wich they need a backbone of moral and good equipment to do the job the legionares will go with a rifle and ammo and still do their job...



ey personaly i think your idea is a great one and you should get major support for it but you must realize implications that may arise to the last detail. even though somepeople may say that an american foreign legion is unesecery it might prove usefull i mean alot of people dont want the draft to be reinstated, u see this is the problem alot of people sway more aligance to their cultures and backrounds i mean i know some hispanic people that have some much hate againts spain and for what they did over the course of history wich is ironic and even for them to build a stable country with foreign intervention is hard and lots of countries just see stuff for their own profit..



well can you tell me how a soldier would feel about this ?? i mean alot of american born soldiers come from a military family wich often sees immigration as a threat to overthrow americans way of life, and know that i think about i think its best for every nation to have a foreign legion so they can be called by theU.N whenever they are needed (dont know the stand point of this though).. i see this immigration issue and i see alot of americans being ignorant(not fully adressed about the biger implication of foreign policy alone holds) about it and idunno do you think this idea would be accepted???? hey once you think about it they could be performing civilliand duties to help urban growth too.



i think this is a good idea and fixing foreign policy also at the same time will make things better for everyone,but i feel that a foreign legion will get to the point that there aligence and respect would be for their comrads. well idunno i just tend to propose ideas a gimble about my thoughts ..



but reply to this message i would hope to hear from you..

[CMartel]

I think you mean "the issue is [moot]", and I think you're correct.

Most americans realized that this was silly, protectionist/isolationist, and ultimately pointless.

No, I mean "mute," which is to say that the whole issue will be making no more noise.

I don't know if the fence was/is pointless, but whatever it takes to protect our borders should be started immediately. If it takes a fence, then build it.

Well, the measure is already signed into law. So if the Dems want to repeal it, they will have to pass another bill, which might or might not be vetoed by the President. The funding is already appropriated, as part of the $33.8 Bn domestic security package.

Something tells me that if the dems don't want a fence, then the dems won't build a fence. Regardless of whether its in the books and paid for.

[ChrisF202]

I have always supported an "American Foreign Legion" position but the fact remains that we need some sort of much more heavily armed and larger force down there; pistol packing NYPD clones operating solo just dosent cut it in the world of 2006. What may have been good enough when the US Border Patrol was created in 1924 is not sufficient to meet the threats of today.

[Asim Aquil]

What's going to keep the mexicans to just hop over it?

or if its barbed wire, just cut it?

There's a joke amongst Latin Americans "They want to build a fence... We are the people they'd hire to build it!" They are good with construction work and doing lots of other menial labor that would otherwise be too expensive in America. There are ways America benefits from them too.

The growth of Spanish language isn't a sufficient reason to kick them out either. Mostly that growth is there because American companies see them as a good consumer base. Buy a sprint calling card and you get an option to choose from Spanish and English. In most places actually. Face it, English is growing all over the world, it won't be wiped off from one of the largest populated English speaking country.

Thrift stores are loaded with them. They are the ones cleaning your streets, they are the ones helping you move, they are the one's cutting down trees... You want to make a few new rooms in your basement, call up a mexican guy and a $10,000 job can be done in $2000.

If Immigration for those countries was any easier even they'd come through legal ways. The fact is you have to be a rich man to immigrate into America or do the shortcut thing and hook up with a citizen chick and marry her.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for them. It's like rooting for the underdogs.

[gunnut]

We understand that.

We just want them to come in through a more orderly and legal fashion. At the same time, we must close the border to reward those who follow the procedures. If we need to streamline the process or increase the immigratioin quota, then so be it. But they must follow our rules and laws.