Females in combat units

[Shiny Capstar]

Yes we have women gunners, its the closest they can really get to combat so that's where a lot of them go. The closest they can get to infantry work proper is when as a forward observer attached to infantry units or when in the intelligence corps they assist on raids etc. They were also used as female searchers in Iraq.

Oh and you always make sure your men know when the arty fire/airstrike is going to arrive and where it should be coming down on.

[tankie]

I am an infantry officer and I am a woman. I have served in the military for over seven years, and have read with disdain comments that have been made by people who have never even worn thier countries uniform or served thier country to honor thier rights and freedoms. These people do not cease my unwavering dedication to my job and never will, I challenge those who feel they are "better" than me to stand up and prove they are instead of complaining.
I am fit, I am strong, I am intelligent and I am good at my job - I only say this to let the ignorant people know that I am out there, there were fine women before me, there are more like me now - and there will be more like me to come. Get over yourself.

You may well be a fine fit strong lady , Dawn , but your a crap spellerrerr , so obviously not a clerk , which was what most females i encountered were , either that or nurses or cooks ,in the WRAC , which , lets face it , its the role best suited for females , amongst other things .:))

[tankie]

What unit and Regiment. You sound pretty tough so give us all your vital stats(height weight age),and lets see how you stack up to the average male infantryman in size and aggressiveness. I served in Europe in the 80,s when women were just starting to work in support units and quite frankly, I found it took on average two women to accomplish what one comparable male could do. For example I could barely chuck boxes of 7.62 ammo onto the back of a deuce and a half and the ladies...one on each end for a swinging toss that had them totally exhausted after only several boxes of ammo. I could just picture these women in a stand up trench clearing infantry battle being slaughtered in droves. For the amount of friction and problems females present in the field service units, let alone advancing to contact with an infantry platoon the numbers who could actually be considered combat effective is minuscule. Women are smaller,weaker,and function on a totally different emotional level then men,and thus are doomed almost 100% of the time to lose in a hand to hand combat and most other endurance situations should they arise. If people were honest with themselves and were willing to admit political correctness is the driving force behind this silly me women, me warrior nonsense, this argument would be long over. I wish some National Army somewhere would pit an all female infantry unit(they would never find the numbers for even a platoon) up against an all male unit so the results could be witnessed by all.Unfortunately, women have become legends in there own minds after watching to much Lara Croft and TV cop shows where tiny 5 ft female cops punch out several males at a time who outweigh them by a sandbag or two. Have a nice day ladies,and maybe even a good cry because in the real world were people can get hurt,Combat sally is a hindrance. That I,as a mere male would dare to question,will probably have the sex police in Canada hunting me down for some sensitivity training. Time to go but I am positive the screeching has already started. Oh well,the truth be told eh! Cheers and not to worry. I have very thick skin so every one can ...itch away.

;););)

[S2]

Wow!!

"Yes we have women gunners..."

All I can say is that I'm truly stunned.

"I realise that at the other end of the equation are squaddies shouting "where the fk is the Art'" but in reality the average Joe Blogg doesn't even know the artillery has been asked for in the first place."

That's not the point. Joe Blogg is just as dead whether he knew fire was on the way or not. If casualties matter in a small army, tell that to the wounded or dead guy hit from a position suppressed five seconds too late.

Speed does matter because Joe Blogg doesn't have sixty tons wrapped around him. Usually all he has is us. Now rounds arrive with a palpable "equal opportunity" slowness to the detriment of guys who's lives may be measured in seconds.

"...its the closest they can really get to combat so that's where a lot of them go."

During Operation Desert Storm, marine 8" arty batteries ran artillery raids forward of the FEBA. How close is close when counter-fire is falling, btw? I still need a sprightly, athletic sort to hop to it so we can displace.

We've had arty fire-bases in SVN attacked and even over-run. I know arty NCOs who'd talk of fighting in the gun pits with entrenching tools.

How close is that?

I'd heard of FOOs and was dubious. I can't endorse this at all. You guys really do have a numbers problem with your folks, a different concept of requirements for your gunners or some combination of the two.

It's not the artillery's job to provide women with an opportunity to get sorta close to battle just for the fairness of it all.

Honestly, I can't imagine women down on the guns.

[Gun Grape]

Surly they must be in FDC or the Comm section. Not the gun line. I was at Sill when they did those stupid Can a woman soldier be a 13B test.

In all honestly I cannot see them as Forward Observers either, except in a mech unit.

I've toted the 135lb pack as a FO (OK S.O. since I'm enlisted) It killed me when I was in shape.

[Gun Grape]

No, they never win over the men. I think at the moment they are firing 155mm. Usually Art' is fired from a good 'ol distance so "absolute" speed in not really necessary. iIit take a woman an extra 3-5 seconds to load, then so be it. I realise that at the other end of the equation are squaddies shouting "where the fk is the Art'" but in reality the average Joe Blogg doesn't even know the artillery has been asked for in the first place.

If it takes her 3-5 seconds longer to take the first round to the breach, how long will it take come round 20-25?

.

[Shiny Capstar]

In all honestly I cannot see them as Forward Observers either, except in a mech unit.

I met a RA female Major, she was a Forward Observer attached to an armoured infantry unit, I have never seen a women attached to light role infantry. They probably came to the same conclusion as you.
Oh and Captain, RA and Calvary regiments have been used on foot in the past to make up infantry numbers in Iraq, not taking part in the pitched conflict there was in the cities but manning road blocks and the like to free up proper infantry for the messy work. I have no idea if the women took part in this as well though. They may place them in SP arty units, just not as loaders.

[S2]

Shiny Capstar Reply

"RA and Calvary regiments have been used on foot in the past to make up infantry numbers in Iraq, not taking part in the pitched conflict there was in the cities but manning road blocks and the like to free up proper infantry for the messy work. I have no idea if the women took part in this as well though."

A short story about reservists from Btry M 3/14 Marines, serving as a provo infantry element with 2 LAR Bn-

Mike Battery Lights Up The Night

That's just one example but we're doing the same thing. That's not what this is about. We may be mechanized as an advantage or fighting where the tempo doesn't demand responsive, lethal, and accurate fires but that capability and more needs to be there.

""They may place them in SP arty units, just not as loaders."

So, cross-trained for a short gun-section...? Ours almost are never fully-manned. A legitimate career-progression with male cannoneers able to access a greater range of responsibilities or obligated to do more and perform better to progress equally? A shared burden under fire? Lots of questions to this.

I confess to not understanding this and feeling as though it flies in the face of all good sense.

[Shiny Capstar]

I confess to not understanding this and feeling as though it flies in the face of all good sense.

I have to agree that it is against common sense to have women in these rolls, they can do a valuable job in the RAMC or AGC. Just in the front-line, or near enough, they are a burden. It may seem sexist but I only care about the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces. If achieving the optimum efficiency involves being a bit sexist, (I still don't see how it is), so be it.

[S2]

The Final Evidence

Does this look like a "chick" job to you (S-2 hears incoming as he dashes for deep bunker)? Please note illum round in background-

[Shiny Capstar]

I have a feeling that if you said that in a RA barracks you'd have a large number of female gunners chasing you, handbags in tow screaming 'we are just as good soldiers as you are!!!' as they proceed to beat you with said handbags, probably have shells in em

[Gun Grape]

I have a feeling that if you said that in a RA barracks you'd have a large number of female gunners chasing you, handbags in tow screaming 'we are just as good soldiers as you are!!!' as they proceed to beat you with said handbags, probably have shells in em

I have no fear of the Molly Pitcher types.

I'll just yell "Rear of the piece Fall In" Then have them do a few hours of gun drill.

Female FOs? Female Gun Grapes? Is nothing sacred?

But I would have loved to have had a female on my gun section way back when. She could have kept the coffee on. And cooked for the rest of the section. Someone to wash our uniformes in the field. Wow a maid on every section. Come to think of it you guys may be on to something.:)):)):))

[Shiny Capstar]

You know, for some reason I don't think they would be that overjoyed at being made to do that
And what would you do with the officers? Put them at the head of the all new 'laundry company'?

They do however do some good work in the UAV units, or as the members of those units like to say, they are 'spy plane pilots':)

[Officer of Engineers]

Well, women officers ...

[bolo121]

But GunGrape, a question.
Wouldnt your guys be thinking with their guns instead of manning their gun? :))