Ask An Expert- Battleships

[tbm3fan]

You thought wrong, apparently.

If you go look at the donation agreement, it specifically says the museums are to maintain the ships in the same condition they received them in. And that's AFTER they came off inactive reserve. Pretty much means they can't change them any way they want.

Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.

[RustyBattleship]

That's probably one for Rusty, but I'd think Missouri is in the best shape of all, since she was just out of the water a few years ago and totally sandblasted and repainted. I think she might get a little more "attention", given her location in Pearl Harbor.

But again, that's really one for Rusty. Judging by the pics of Iowa, looks like her innards are in fine shape as well, and other than the obvious with Turret 2 being inop, she might well be in the best shape.

Yeah, I guess that is more in my area than anyone else's. The fact is that Missouri was the first of the four to be donated and between the Iowa Class Preservation Association (ICPA) and the team of Battleships experts I put together from LBNSY and NAVSEA I created DREADNAUGHT CONSULTING and drew the plans for visitor routes, dehumidification machine relocations, etc. The mos complex plans were for installing the ship's own Air Conditioning system without using the York plants still on board that would require opening up the intake and discharge openings in the bottom shell plating of the ship.

Stan Lintner was our HVAC expert (and past Assistant Chief Engineer of LBNSY) who actually designed the new system based upon the Carrier plants the Hawaii group wanted. I did the drawings on Coral Draw, Stan checked them out and red penciled corrections and finally signed them off. The structural drawings I had checked by Larry Levy who was one of our Design supervisors and holds a Masters degree in Naval Architecture.

The plants are installed on the 03 level and "hidden" between the armored box launchers. Not only to get them out of sight (sort of) but the ABL's help muffle (or redirect) the noise they make.

So when it came for me to speak up to the Los Angeles Harbor Department in San Pedro to get the Iowa in, I related to the volunteer list of shipfitters, welders, machinists, electricians, riggers, engineers and draftsmen all signed in under my name -- I made special note to the committee that they all worked on the New Jersey and Missouri and some of us also did inspections on the Iowa and Wisconsin for their 1980's reactivation.

My concluding words were: "We are not some people who have read a book on Battleships, WE ARE THE PROFESSIONALS".

[Pacfanweb]

Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.

Yep, and on the Wisconsin's contract (and the other Iowas, I'd think) it says this, which is what I was referring to earlier:

"Donee shall maintain the Vessel in a condition satisfactory to the Secretary given the Vessel's status, no worse than the current condition"
Given that the "current condition" was that the ships were in Inactive Reserve and able to be recalled in a certain time frame, I'd say that implies that they must be maintained in such a condition, other than normal wear and tear...which is mentioned later. So that throws out making any major modifications.

It also states, after saying they need permission to do just about anything to the ship, "any alterations of the Vessel must preserve the capability of being reverted by the Navy, in the event the Navy requests the Donee return the Vessel"

[ArmorPiercing88]

Donation agreements for all ships on NavSea

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Team...eum-Contracts/

In Iowas contract, Section 4, nothing can be done without approval from the California State Historic Preservation Officer. Hornet's doesn't directly mention the SHPO, but does say the Hornet must abide by all Federal, State, and local regulations in the preservation of the ship. We also have section 2k where the ship must get written approval from the Secretary of the Navy before transfer or disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel. This is the section that our new Director violated and the Navy has been notified.

What did your new director do to violate the donation agreement?

[ArmorPiercing88]

So the Missour is in the best material condition of the 4 because of air conditioning? I was thinking more about the (remote) possibility of needing to be returned to service. They obviously wouldn't be able to bring back all 4. Aren't Wisconsin and Missouri in substantially better shape than Iowa and New Jersey, which would likely become parts bins?

[tbm3fan]

What did your new director do to violate the donation agreement?

" disposal of the ship or any part of the vessel" for a start as there is now a non-approved modification on the O2 Level now.

[RustyBattleship]

So the Missour is in the best material condition of the 4 because of air conditioning? I was thinking more about the (remote) possibility of needing to be returned to service. They obviously wouldn't be able to bring back all 4. Aren't Wisconsin and Missouri in substantially better shape than Iowa and New Jersey, which would likely become parts bins?

Yes. Having its own air conditioning machinery, using only FRESH water from shore supply, you do not have to cut open the seachests to provide SALT water to go through the existing York plants. Tube change outs are a b*tch and I had to add in bolted plate accesses through transverse bulkheads for the change outs. This ensures that the main machinery spaces and living quarters below 2nd deck can keep a low humidity. Plus having the main units up on 03 level allows room to access the plants (Carrier) and all the piping is PVC making easy and light weight for an valve maintenance or any repairs needed.

[ArmorPiercing88]

Do the other 3 ships use saltwater, or do they just not run as much AC?

I guess I meant if that lunatic Trump gets elected and tries to reactivate some battleships (which is not beyond reason...not relighting that whole debate but Trump is nuts enough to try), what is the "ranking" of the ships in terms of current material condition, and why? Hasn't Iowa been subject to more restrictions than Missouri over the years? I know her donation contract has the usual language about national emergencies blah blah blah, but she was the only ship NOT put back into Cat B reserve after they were all decomm-ed in the early 90's.

[bigjimslade]

Does anyone know the dimensions of chain links on the Iowas? Diameter? Length? Width?

[RustyBattleship]

Does anyone know the dimensions of chain links on the Iowas? Diameter? Length? Width?

The best I can tell you as that Iowa class Battleship anchor chains are 3-3/8" diameter studded links. That's the thickness of the link. They are actually oval shaped about 20" long and 14" or 15" wide. I was just trying to scale off a drawing I made of the towing bridle I had to design when the New Jersey was decommissioned. Then I had to draw it all over again in CAD for the towing bridles for the Missouri and Iowa. So the quickie print out I made is sort of 3/4"=1'-0" to scale.

You would have to look up their weights on the Internet. But, they are HEAVY. But not the heaviest towing bridle I ever had to design which was for the Ranger when she was towed up to Bremerton from Long Beach. DANG! Those were BIG chain links.

[bigjimslade]

Thanks,

I have read they are 120 lbs each (I could find that). Would you know of any pictures of the wildcat without chain? I am trying to figure out how the links fit from the plans.

[85 gt kid]

I was going through something online the other day (can't remember where) that said the Missouri had a prop shaft removed, they went on to say that means she couldn't be reactivated (stupid). Anyways I've never read that in all my readings and with the high restrictions on the Iowas it seems unlikely but figured id ask.

I do know that the Massachusetts had her outer shafts REMOVED because she couldn't fit in the drydock in the late 80s and the museum wanted to CUT the shafts, the Navy said no.

[RustyBattleship]

Thanks,

I have read they are 120 lbs each (I could find that). Would you know of any pictures of the wildcat without chain? I am trying to figure out how the links fit from the plans.

I may have some photos in hiding somewhere on this PC. However, I know the Wisconsin has a Windlass manual. They had two but when I couldn't find one on the Iowa (while up in Benicia) a contact of mine on the New Jersey got the Wisconsin to give us one of their manuals. That manual is now aboard ship but we have so much more work to do, I would not ask anyone to make a copy of it. But it is possible to get one from the New Jersey because before sending it to me (I think) they made a copy of the Wisconsin's copy.

[tbm3fan]

I may have some photos in hiding somewhere on this PC. However, I know the Wisconsin has a Windlass manual. They had two but when I couldn't find one on the Iowa (while up in Benicia) a contact of mine on the New Jersey got the Wisconsin to give us one of their manuals. That manual is now aboard ship but we have so much more work to do, I would not ask anyone to make a copy of it. But it is possible to get one from the New Jersey because before sending it to me (I think) they made a copy of the Wisconsin's copy.

I remember sitting on the deck looking through manuals looking for that. Found several WWII era manuals though on different things like the .45 and grenades.

[bigjimslade]

It sounds like the ships themselves have stashes of information. Somehow I've got to take a look. Anyone at the NJ I should contact?