What if? Roman Army vs. USMC MEU

[Mihais]

You have the greatest army of Rome since Cannae(or Arausio) in the field.Facing them is an infantry btn. The btn. goes in a firing line,approaching the Romans.At 200m they lay prone and start taking single shots.First the leaders,then the men.If the romans advance and get to close,the btn has the SAW's and MG's crossfiring.The btn has ~300.000 rounds without resupply.It can kill half the army of Trajan or Septimius Severus without losing a man and without breaking a sweat.By sheer momentum and violence of action they can then exploit the victory politically.

p.s Did I mentioned mortars?

[YellowFever]

As I said before, why waste the ammo?

Have the snipers pick off the leaders one by one and have all the tracks run over the soldiers as they get close.

Fire a few round of arty just for effects to drown out the Roman soldiers screaming.

Makes a good movie.

[ArmchairGeneral]

romans all die from easily transmittable diseases.

Hm...not sure which way that would play out, actually. The Romans were already exposed to most Old World diseases, and for some reason New World diseases didn't cause much trouble for Old World people (probably a combination of a much younger civilization, lower population density, and fewer domesticated animals). Once the Marines run out of antibiotics it would just be a matter of immune systems going mano a mano... Syphilis was much worse back then, but then the question is whether it was worse because humans hadn't developed tolerance, or because the bugs hadn't learned to not kill their hosts yet...I wonder if anyone has tried to sequence syphilis from historic samples...

[S2]

Essentially this is a variation of the Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court. A U.S. Marine MEU would have so much currency to trade on that they'd revolutionize mankind in the space of one generation. In fact, IMHO they'd not need to fire a shot to have their way.

[BD1]

Essentially this is a variation of the Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court. A U.S. Marine MEU would have so much currency to trade on that they'd revolutionize mankind in the space of one generation. In fact, IMHO they'd not need to fire a shot to have their way.

i want the roman cavalry on bicycles, like in original book

[Gun Boat]

I don't think that the marines could maintain unit cohesion once they realised where they were.

Your modern day soldier is to smart and independant to not know what he could do if found in such a situation. I think the marines would desert on mass and be setting up little mini-kingdoms all over Europe.

Why would they continue to adhere to the chain of command? Patriotism? To defend the US? For their families?

All those things are gone. After about a month or so there would be nothing left of the original force.

[Parihaka]

Hm...not sure which way that would play out, actually. The Romans were already exposed to most Old World diseases, and for some reason New World diseases didn't cause much trouble for Old World people (probably a combination of a much younger civilization, lower population density, and fewer domesticated animals). Once the Marines run out of antibiotics it would just be a matter of immune systems going mano a mano... Syphilis was much worse back then, but then the question is whether it was worse because humans hadn't developed tolerance, or because the bugs hadn't learned to not kill their hosts yet...I wonder if anyone has tried to sequence syphilis from historic samples...

It's unlikely syphilis existed in Europe in Roman times.





Yay! Something I knew you didn't! Yay!

[kato]

It's unlikely syphilis existed in Europe in Roman times.

Depends largely on which theory you follow.

[1979]

As I said before, why waste the ammo?
Have the snipers pick off the leaders one by one and have all the tracks run over the soldiers as they get close.
Fire a few round of arty just for effects to drown out the Roman soldiers screaming.
Makes a good movie.

After the initial encounter ( Praetorian guard and militia ) it is unlikely that the Romans would march on the MEU, probably they would fall back to Greece,Spain and north Africa and dig in.
Most of the food and goods received overseas would be cut, just 8 years before Marc Antony was able to raise in Egypt a army that rivaled that of Octavian.
Without the LHA is a long march on those colonies and fuel is not exactly easy to procure.

[USSWisconsin]

How long could the modern force function without resupply? Their edge of technology would dull as months went by. In a year, they would be immobile - how long could they stretch thier ammo - a couple years? I'm afraid they would appear in mythology as gods - who came and went, in reality, they would be murdered or fade into the background.

[Doktor]

This all what if scenario reminded me of "Man who would be King":

[ArmchairGeneral]

It's unlikely syphilis existed in Europe in Roman times.

A good point. And also reminds me that one of my other statements in that post may be off, if it is true that syphilis came from America.

Yay! Something I knew you didn't! Yay!

That just made my day. Which is more than a little sad...

Oh well. I'll take my happiness where I can find it, even if it leaves me in a state of meta-depression.

[Chogy]

I am not on board with those who claim that disease will be a factor. It makes no sense at all. Marines do not run about with smallpox, syphilus, diptheria, cholera, or any of the other nasties that were an issue 150 years ago. The Marines would be sterile when compared to the locals. If anything, it'd be the Marines who suffer horribly from diseases caught from Romans. Especially digestive issues from the water and local food. Call it "Caesar's Revenge."

Marine unit cohesion: Thee guys would not take off on their own... they'd stick together. Consider - something obviously otherworldly brought them there. They cannot speak the language. The individual Marine is going to hang with those who can give him more ammo, more MRE's and the companionship he's used to. I also believe they'd follow the chain of command, knowing that it works, is necessary for efficiency and organization. I can see the military command aspect changing after a couple of years into a democratic system of vote, perhaps even a representative system. But initially, they'll function as a unit.

The notion of using coal is a good one. Can an Abram's gas turbine run on whale oil? ;)

[Albany Rifles]

I know I am wading in very late, but the Marines better win fast for the following reasons:

1. There are a LOT of weapons systems and test equipment in any modern military unit which require calibration...and that calibration equipment needs to be calibrated every year. The ability to calibrate the calibration equipment is not resident in a MEU.

2. The engineer platoon in the MEU has not capability to drill anything. It has dozers and C4, that's it. They aren't going to become the Great HOOOAH Oil Company. The requirement to drill for water is an Army theater function and that ability resides within the QM Corps no longer the engineers. They do have the ability to produce potable water but that equipment is not drill based (ROWPU).

3. Disease....not what the Marines are bringing to the Romans. What water borne diseases, etrc, exist in ancient Italy which the Marines and Sailors have no immunity to? All that decon equipment will eventually run out of fuel.

4. Age. The unit is not going to get any younger. Eventually there will be a breakdown in unit ability, cohesion, and mission sense. Early on the strange effects will drive the unit closer but all of this breaksdown with age of soldiers AND equipment. Remember, EVERY member of that MEU is a volunteer. What happens when things like enlistment lengths expire? Not everyone is going to stay with the colors.

I know most of these items were already raised....just didn't have the patience to go back through all posts.

[astralis]

chogy,

I am not on board with those who claim that disease will be a factor. It makes no sense at all. Marines do not run about with smallpox, syphilus, diptheria, cholera, or any of the other nasties that were an issue 150 years ago. The Marines would be sterile when compared to the locals. If anything, it'd be the Marines who suffer horribly from diseases caught from Romans. Especially digestive issues from the water and local food. Call it "Caesar's Revenge."

there's a lot of diseases which we're more or less immune to which the romans will not be. plenty of latent viruses and bacteria floating around in our bloodstream.