Serbia-the autopsy report

[Versus]

Farmers get higher prices and can grow more raspberries using more money they get to improve yields, competitiveness. Less spoilage of raspberries ergo more sold less lost in transit. People who ship it have more to do and earn income from that. Suppliers for those plants will make money anyone from making packaging to machine tool engeneers whom will repair certain aspects. Electricity of the area can be improved to make it more stable and likely other businesses will gravitate there. Labor yes cheap but will give people earning capacity.
Families can form easier with wages possible long term. Small businesses like restaurants will flourish they will reinvest in the community. Other small businesses that manufacture things may spring up, like packaging or another raspberry oriented business from local capital based on infrastructure enticed and built out based on foreign capital. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg and multiplier effects that can occur and will likely occur. If you go watch a movie the documentary about sillicon valley it all started with 1 company (fairchild semi i think) building a plant eventually 2 engeneers that left that company build another company, and people that left that company founded other things. Other industries sprung up and the list goes on and on.

Globalisation creates incentive for price competition this is good and bad. Makes raspberries more competitive if tariffs elsewhere are reduced to accommodate the demand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTC_RxWN_xo

about 53 minutes in Shockley Semi people leave to create Fairchild people leave to start Intel etc... etc.. 65 major companies.

Cyppok,you can't use the US examples as the default examples that work on the entire globe. US is a special country and thus its rules work only within US but not outside of the US. Why?
Because the geopolitical position of the US is different than the most countries in the world. It has two land borders, Canada and Mexico, out of which the one border is the geopolitical challenge the border with Mexico. So US can freely develop its Silcon walley with no fear of being invaded from another country although in reality it is obsessed with invasion, either by little green men or by big red men. But that is a fiction. Second US has the most advanced and powerfull military in the world that can protect it form any possible threat. Third US has nuclear weapons.
Serbia on the other hand has 8 borders,it is surrounded by countries that showed hostile intents in the past, wars were waged with them, so the Serbian situation is different than the US situation. It has one imminent threat which has evolved into a slow process of Albanisation of its southern part, also known as silent invasion while US doesn't have that problem with mexicans. Mexicans are coming to the US to get a better life, Albanians were coming to Serbia in order to become majority and than use the right of the majority to take that parts of Serbia and join them with Albania thus creating the Great Albania.
The main issue is how to stop them. Either by force or by other means. The issue at hand is how to stop the Albanians to spread and you certainly can't do that by making better conditions for life, cause than you will only enable them to settle and complete their goal. I don't know how to put it, THE WAR IS STILL GOING ON.
I mean,just yesterday they killed the Serbian family that fell for the multethinc,democratic,tollerant mumbo jumbo and returned to their home. Now three Serbian families want to leave that village.

[Doktor]

Cyppok,

Was thinking about your grand raspberries plan and was looking at some numbers.

Namely, last year Serbia produced 65,000t of raspberries, making 10-15% of the world production, which is good record for a country with the size of Serbia.

Now, if you convert those tons into cash, that would equal 65mn euros.

Let's say all of them are preserves, packed in 340g jars it would be 200mn euros.

That's assuming Serbia makes 0 from raspberries preserves today.

200mn euros is not that much incentive in high politics.

[cyppok]

Cyppok,

Was thinking about your grand raspberries plan and was looking at some numbers.

Namely, last year Serbia produced 65,000t of raspberries, making 10-15% of the world production, which is good record for a country with the size of Serbia.

Now, if you convert those tons into cash, that would equal 65mn euros.

Let's say all of them are preserves, packed in 340g jars it would be 200mn euros.

That's assuming Serbia makes 0 from raspberries preserves today.

200mn euros is not that much incentive in high politics.

Serbia earns $200 Million from Raspberries
This was 3 years ago.

Serbia became the world's leading exporter of raspberry fruit last year, selling 63.300 tons and earning $200 million or $3.154 per tonne.

The country saw significant rise in raspberry exports from a year earlier, but the revenues are slightly down from the previous year.

In 2008, Serbia exported 54.900 tons of raspberries and reported $203 million revenues i.e. $3.710 per ton.

Assuming food inflation they are getting $225-275 mil today on the low end. Notice this is all tonnage of export without added value.

Added value would quintuple the price of finished product, and combined added value would most likely multiply it even further.

Ergo raspberry preserves would most likely retail for $6-7 a kilo considering half of it is sugar as long as that was procured at world rates or 80 cents or so a kilo. Energy ofcourse etc... (2 kilos of preserve for 9 wholesale with half being sugar 80 cents and 1.50-2 for raspberries, ergo 2.40 to 2.80 vis a vis 9 wholesale and 12-14 retail)

It would be very likely that a fruit preserve factory that makes a few hundred million dollars in preserve for export within the region would be very viable. It is also likely that a fruit bar production line using those preserves could also be launched. So this would likely push the overall impact up to a billion dollars if you think about marginal impact on farmer prices etc...

Raspberries, Serbia

I assume since they say tons of export its not added value just raw frozen raspberries.

Most of Serbia’s raspberries are exported in frozen form (around 95% of all production goes for exports). Exporting them fresh would strongly improve revenues, but many structural problems go against Serbian producers. These relate to the country's shipping and logistical capacity, for example. The fresh raspberry must reach the final consumer within a couple of days from the moment it is hand picked in the Arilje plantations.

The 2/3rds or so I took from some report but I think it was off a bit.

By the way the retail prices is what we pay here in the states {Brooklyn, Ny} for Turkish made Raspberry preserves... It fluctuates between 11 and 18 during now (seasons when they make a fresh batch its about 11-12 and then goes to 18 towards offseason)

Considering most of their crop is exported they are basically #1 producer that exports. Russia and USA probably consume their own production. They fluctuate between 50k-90k tons production.

A billion dollar business a year is about 5-10 billion in equity for some firm. Enough to spend on lobbyists. I am overestimating it a bit its the total sum.

The preserve factory would most likely be a 100-300 million business and the fruit bar factory something similar (assuming 50 mil jars / 100/200 mil bars) Close enough for a major corporation to defend and improve ties for easier export out-roll.

[Versus]

You both do realise that one kilogram of refined heroine,that the Albanian Mafia exports, is worth more than one kilogram of fresh raspberries?

[Doktor]

You realize they can't produce 60,000 tons of heroin ;)

Anyway back to Raspberries.

We import preserves from Italy and the price for 12pcs x 340gr jars is EUR 10,728. The packaging is about 1 EUR so it makes net 9,728 EUR sale price for 12 jars (~4kg preserves). To produce one jar of 340gr Italians use 340gr of fruit and 340gr of sugar, which is not in the calculation.

Now, would you do your math again?

As for Serbs attracting foreigners to invest there, take a look in Vojvodina and you will see Henkel, Siemens, Lidl, Mecaplast, Albon, Swarovski...

In the first quarter of 2012 only in Vojvodina FDIs are over 100mn euro.

[Versus]

Ok, we will grow raspberries. But only after we place 1000 "Dora" like cannons to guard Presevo valley.

[Doktor]

Ok, we will grow raspberries. But only after we place 1000 "Dora" like cannons to guard Presevo valley.

:insane:

Thought Arilje is some 100km North of Kosovo put the guns on the north ;)

[Versus]

Ok here are the solutions for Presevo Valley.
Solution A.
1.Albanians from Presevo Valley get exchanged for the Serbs in Kosovo. Serbs from Kosovo move to Presevo Valley and Albanians from Presevo Valley move to Kosovo. Borders are not changed,Albanians are safe from Serbs and Serbs are safe from Albanians, no loss of life,no hostility the matter is closed for the Presevo Valley.
2.Than build an fortified physical barrier around Kosovo aka the wall. The Wall doesn't kill anyone and provides safety, for both Albanians in Kosovo and for the Serbs in Serbia.
3.Than we can produce as much raspberries as we can or silicon chips or what ever.
Solution B.
1.Place 1000 Dora like cannons around Presevo Valley.
2.Since Albanians are afraid that the Serbs want to push them away from their land, make it illegal to purchase,own or posses any property from Albanians. Since Serbs are afraid that the Albanians want to purchase their land in order to create Great Albania,like they did in Kosovo, make it illegal to sell any land or property to Albanians.
3.Give them local autonomy, lowest possible taxes,let them form their own police force,let them make their own laws,let them make their own educational system,medical system,special relationships with Kosovo, etc. In return they have to recognise Serbia as their homeland while they are free to organize their life any way they want.

[Versus]

:insane:

Thought Arilje is some 100km North of Kosovo put the guns on the north ;)

I would put them and cross connect them all over the Serbia just for kicks :)

[Versus]

You realize they can't produce 60,000 tons of heroin ;)

Anyway back to Raspberries.

We import preserves from Italy and the price for 12pcs x 340gr jars is EUR 10,728. The packaging is about 1 EUR so it makes net 9,728 EUR sale price for 12 jars (~4kg preserves). To produce one jar of 340gr Italians use 340gr of fruit and 340gr of sugar, which is not in the calculation.

Now, would you do your math again?

As for Serbs attracting foreigners to invest there, take a look in Vojvodina and you will see Henkel, Siemens, Lidl, Mecaplast, Albon, Swarovski...

In the first quarter of 2012 only in Vojvodina FDIs are over 100mn euro.

In the US 1kg of heroine is 75.000 US Dollars. They don't have to make 60.000 tons of it to overshadow our income from raspberries. As for northern province, it wants its independence too.
But I must ask one question about all this? Why on Earth,do you Cyppok think that the western way of doing business is the only and the best way for doing it? Because the communism failed and the capitalism didn't? That doesn't mean a thing, it means that the communism was a failed solution it doesn't mean that the capitalism is the best.

[Doktor]

Churchill would have to tell you something on the topic ;)

[Versus]

Churchill would have to tell you something on the topic ;)

I like this one the best
"If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law."

but as he gets hardcore
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." or "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

[Versus]

I just love to read this mystical lines and especially words like blessings,virtues and vices...another synonym for God given rights to something. I am sure that the mighty British navy has nothing to do in creation of these blessings,virtues and vices.
Why it is so hard to admit the simple fact that the British people are simply very smart and that their elite is well educated and capable group of people? Why it has to be mystical?

[Versus]

Biden the rider,
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0RmK...feature=relmfu
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu7vQ...feature=relmfu
DioGuardi,the chief lobbyist for Albanian cause,himslef the ethnic Albanian. The speech describes the counter insurgency operation in 1998, after KLA took over 40% of Kosovo territory and held the city of Decani under sige. Two M-24 helicopter gunships were used to secure the safe pass for the UH-1 which evacuated wounded police officers.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtneV...eature=related

They have the highest US politicians for decades in their pocket.

[Versus]

I think that it is safe to say that sooner rather than later, the unification of Albanian lands will be complete and that the creation of Great Albania or Natural Albania will happen. And there is nothing that we can do about it. We can't do anything because we don't want to see it, we deny its existence and we continue to nurture ourselves with the bizarre cocktail of nationalism, which I see as a form of aggression which is the natural consequence of fear or the awareness that the threat is present and Euthanasia which represents the false hope that once we become the EU members we will be safe and protected and we don't have to worry about anything. Epic choices between hell and heaven, that make me sick together with all the mysticism that follows it and that it breeds. I wonder how that life will look like? The life with Great Albania at our doorstep.

Would it be like it was in Kosovo during the 1960 and 1970? When you had to escort your children to kindergarten and to school every day cause they might be beaten to death or gang raped? Even killed? When if you are a farmer, Albanians were free to take your cattle, harvest your crops, cut down your forest or burn your house and you can't report it cause you would upset the multicultural multi-ethnic consensus that everything is fine and dandy? To live in fear 24/7 for your life and the lives of your loved ones? To be tolerant to the tribal culture that doesn't know tolerance and respects only its internal codex?

All that so that free market can gain access to your market and sell its consumer goods that have been made in China and increase profits. Profits that than go to the Wall Street where with the help of accounting magic and banking esoterica get multiplied so that they can pay for Brazilian top model between your legs, yacht,private jet, fifty 10 bedroom apartment houses,for the fuel to commute 500 miles a day from the dandy cul-de-sac suburbia to the down town? And for all those kilograms of cocaine and heroine that you need in order to keep the edge in the ever growing expanding world of global markets.

Or would you take the healthy overdose of epic songs together with your assault rifle,ammo and scream-”You shall not pass!!!”. Than to be labelled as a ultra nationalistic maniac, intolerant,primitive,barbaric savage that is the re incarnation of Hitler, the supreme evil. Freaking Satan himself.

Tough choices.But what ever you do, you are bound to lose your sanity and humanity.