PLA troops spotted near China-Vietnam border

[Doktor]

One learns something new every day.

Yue = Barbarian(s)

what does it make of Yuan?

[ngatimozart]

He will be reporting something that may have been in Janes or one of the many other defence and security news websites. Being familiar with his material I treat it as highly reliable. You could google it.

[Doktor]

He will be reporting something that may have been in Janes or one of the many other defence and security news websites. Being familiar with his material I treat it as highly reliable. You could google it.

For whom you talk here? It's a bit unclear.

[ngatimozart]

For whom you talk here? It's a bit unclear.

My apologies. My reply post:

He will be reporting something that may have been in Janes or one of the many other defence and security news websites. Being familiar with his material I treat it as highly reliable. You could google it.

is for this post:

Sir,

Could you point me in the direction of a source for that?

V/r,
D

who was replying to GF0012s post:

not too many oil rigs get their very own submarine as a watchdog....

[Doktor]

Ah, now I see.

Knowing GF, I doubt it's from Jane or from Stockholm Institute only, but it's sure an open source or he wouldn't post it.

[ngatimozart]

Ah, now I see.

Knowing GF, I doubt it's from Jane or from Stockholm Institute only, but it's sure an open source or he wouldn't post it.

I know him from elsewhere, hence my posting and yes it'll definitely be open source. Google's are good search engine so it should eventually find it. It doesn't surprise me that the PLAN have a sub lurking in there, because it is a provocative action and a sub in the area makes the opposition a bit more wary. Nasty things subs are. I was a surface sailor - never saw the sense, myself, in deliberately sinking your boat and then having nasty people drop explosive bricks on you if you annoyed them. Can't exactly jump over the side if it goes belly up so too speak.

I definitely think China is the aggressor in this situation and in a some ways it may have similarities to the Russian annexation of the Crimea. That's a land grab and the so called nine dash line is the maritime equivalent of it. There are no legal grounds under international law for these Chinese claims and the oil drill situation is where it could all turn to custard fairly quickly, if the Vietnamese decide that they've had enough and that they will stand up to this bullying. Tom Clancy wrote that war is robbery writ large and imho this is a case of attempted robbery by a large nation against a smaller neighbour. Therefore I believe the next move is up to the Vietnamese and I strongly believe that they won't back down from a fight if their backs are against the wall.

[Skywatcher]

I know him from elsewhere, hence my posting and yes it'll definitely be open source. Google's are good search engine so it should eventually find it. It doesn't surprise me that the PLAN have a sub lurking in there, because it is a provocative action and a sub in the area makes the opposition a bit more wary. Nasty things subs are. I was a surface sailor - never saw the sense, myself, in deliberately sinking your boat and then having nasty people drop explosive bricks on you if you annoyed them. Can't exactly jump over the side if it goes belly up so too speak.

I definitely think China is the aggressor in this situation and in a some ways it may have similarities to the Russian annexation of the Crimea. That's a land grab and the so called nine dash line is the maritime equivalent of it. There are no legal grounds under international law for these Chinese claims and the oil drill situation is where it could all turn to custard fairly quickly, if the Vietnamese decide that they've had enough and that they will stand up to this bullying. Tom Clancy wrote that war is robbery writ large and imho this is a case of attempted robbery by a large nation against a smaller neighbour. Therefore I believe the next move is up to the Vietnamese and I strongly believe that they won't back down from a fight if their backs are against the wall.

The oil rig is well within the EEZ of the Paracel Islands under any possible interpretation of the UNCLOS, and given that Hanoi acknowledged the Paracels as part of China in the 1950s, they really can't complain (though the North did tear up the peace treaty with Saigon).

[Skywatcher]

Never underestimate the greed of the corporations. Once the tension got high, the premiums will also rise.

Yes, but the Chinese have enough money to subsidize the premiums of the ships in question for a decent amount of time.

[cdude]

One learns something new every day.

Yue = Barbarian(s)

what does it make of Yuan?

What Yuan? The Chinese had various names for "savages" from different general directions, Yue, Yi, Xiong-nu, Man.... and so on. Or collectively, you could just say the Chinese had names for "foreigners". Of course the Chinese living the center of the world, thought the foreigners were below themselves.

Edit: you could say "collectively the Chinese were aware of the 'savages' TM living outside of the central kingdom." But the most important ones were always from the north, the Mongols, the Manchurians, and recently the Russians and the Japanese if you want.

Vietnam and especially vietnamese people hardly register in the collective memories of the Chinese people (there was never hatred toward them). Any other narratives on the board is voa/cia/state department sponsored BS.

[Officer of Engineers]

Vietnam and especially vietnamese people hardly register in the collective memories of the Chinese people (there was never hatred toward them). Any other narratives on the board is voa/cia/state department sponsored BS.

No, not hatre. Worst. Contempt.

[cdude]

No, not hatre. Worst. Contempt.

I would say, ignorance from the Chinese side. The northern neighbors are much much more important to us throughout history. There aren't anytime on TV or in history classes to cover Vietnam/Thailand/Lao/Cambodia/India/Burma/Pakistan/..Stans. Sorry all those countries, most Chinese people just don't know you or your history.

But Hillary and her State Department minions on WAB would tell you the Chinese look down upon all ya people.

Not true.

[Officer of Engineers]

No, I say contempt is the right word. To this day, the Sino-Soviet border clashes get more attention than either the Sino-Indo War or both Sino-VN Wars even though a hell of a lot more casualties were suffered during the latter wars.

Except for the military knowledgeable, the average Zhou Chinese thinks that the Chinese military can quash India and Vietnam like a bug. Ignorance doesn't even come close to the Chinese challenges facing south.

[cdude]

No, I say contempt is the right word. To this day, the Sino-Soviet border clashes get more attention than either the Sino-Indo War or both Sino-VN Wars even though a hell of a lot more casualties were suffered during the latter wars.

Except for the military knowledgeable, the average Zhou Chinese thinks that the Chinese military can quash India and Vietnam like a bug. Ignorance doesn't even come close to the Chinese challenges facing south.

Average Zhou would think PLA can annihilate anyone not named Russia or the US of A, doesn't mean they look down upon anyone not named Russia or the US of A.

Your average Zhou knows about Vietnam as much as your average hillybillies knows about Mexico. Absolutely no hard feelings toward them as someone posted 2 pages earlier.

He probably hang out with old Chinatown folks from HK/North America who had to fight for territory against Viet gangs. Not representing.

[Officer of Engineers]

Your average Zhou knows about Vietnam as much as your average hillybillies knows about Mexico.

Not a good comparison. Your average hillbillies knows a hell of a lot about Mexico. Mainly because he hangs around with Mexicans.

Absolutely no hard feelings toward them as someone posted 2 pages earlier.

Hard feelings? No. Beneath them? Yes. How many Chinese know that the Indian civilization is just as old as theirs? Or that Vietnamese culture was not borned of Chinese culture?

[cdude]

Not a good comparison. Your average hillbillies knows a hell of a lot about Mexico. Mainly because he hangs around with Mexicans.

Hard feelings? No. Beneath them? Yes. How many Chinese know that the Indian civilization is just as old as theirs? Or that Vietnamese culture was not borned of Chinese culture?

We were always taught that Indus civilization is one of the 4 ancient ones (Egypt, the one in nowaday Iraq, China and India).

But does anybody pay attention to what was achieved thousands years ago? Of course the current generation Chinese think they are the shit. But that's hardly toward anyone in particular. They have the money to travel around and see for themselves.

If you have visited China recently, you would understand they are rightly so.