Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

[Double Edge]

Good explainer on CAA

Illiterate students is a good way of describing it as most people opposed do not understand what they are opposing

[Tronic]

It is indeed DE!!!

Infact, that was one of my most favourite parts of that video.. His whole base of the argument from that video is summed up pretty well by just a few of his lines which really mesmerized me by his argument.

Here are my favourite parts:

[Double Edge]

It is indeed DE!!!

Infact, that was one of my most favourite parts of that video.. His whole base of the argument from that video is summed up pretty well by just a few of his lines which really mesmerized me by his argument.

Here are my favourite parts:

Point being what. He's not the one opposing is he.

His point which i entirely endorse is people that want to oppose should understand FIRST what it is they are opposing ?

Common sense ? not so common as i frequently discover

Sounds brutal DE...

I was able to counter all of them. Actually, counter isn't the right word. They kept asking why this and that.

eg. Why Sri Lankan Tamils were not included ? because there was no religious persecution

My favourite one was how the J&K instrument of accession also allowed for a plebiscite o_O

Same instrument was signed with over 500 princely kingdoms. Never heard of such a thing.

Pulled it up on wiki and made them read it.

The word appears no where.

This is how many arguments went : )

That 370 was successively diluted over the decades seemed not to register at all.

Junagarh held a referendum and voted to remain with India

[Tronic]

Point being what. He's not the one opposing is he.

His point which i entirely endorse is people that want to oppose should understand FIRST what it is they are opposing ?

Common sense ? not so common as i frequently discover

Students who read the act, got infuriated by it, came out on the streets to protest it, got shot at by police, got attacked in their university by government supported thugs are being preached about the benevolence of the act by this "enlightened mystic" who himself doesn't know what the heck he is supporting because he admits he hasn't read the act himself.. yet, he calls the students Illiterate because... they oppose something he hasn't even read? This is why I love these chaps, hypocrisy to the brim.. very entertaining DE, I'm a fan!

I was able to counter all of them. Actually, counter isn't the right word. They kept asking why this and that.

eg. Why Sri Lankan Tamils were not included ? because there was no religious persecution

My favourite one was how the J&K instrument of accession also allowed for a plebiscite o_O

Same instrument was signed with over 500 princely kingdoms. Never heard of such a thing.

Pulled it up on wiki and made them read it.

The word appears no where.

This is how many arguments went : )

That 370 was successively diluted over the decades seemed not to register at all.

Junagarh held a referendum and voted to remain with India

Congratulations DE.. you can go to sleep easy now.

[Double Edge]

Students who read the act, got infuriated by it, came out on the streets to protest it, got shot at by police, got attacked in their university by government supported thugs are being preached about the benevolence of the act by this "enlightened mystic" who himself doesn't know what the heck he is supporting because he admits he hasn't read the act himself.. yet, he calls the students Illiterate because... they oppose something he hasn't even read? This is why I love these chaps, hypocrisy to the brim.. very entertaining DE, I'm a fan!

He's referring to Lucknow in particular. Are you familiar with what happened there ?

Delhi & Ahmedabad were also violent

You have points to make then start.

Start reading the last few pages

Students protesting is not an issue provided they do it peacefully. Stone throwing, violence and arson is.

Since when do people throw stones outside Kashmir. That's radical influence right there.


The irony is how did an amendment to help people get their papers faster on the basis of religious persecution get turned into something anti-minority.

That was the agenda. To portray it as such


People were told muslims are being discriminated. By whom ? foreign players or domestic. If foreign then its info warfare.

A mass hysteria was whipped up and within ten days we get protests across 13 cities.

When was the last time that happened ? i cannot recall

Notes ban ? no

Triple talaq ? no

370 ? no

Ayodhya ? no

State of the economy ? still no

But CAA then all hell breaks loose

yeah...getting it now ?

These protests weren't genuine they were motivated

The ones in the NE are genuine and a harder problem to deal with

Congratulations DE.. you can go to sleep easy now.

Just goes to show the ignorance

[Tronic]

He's referring to Lucknow in particular. Are you familiar with what happened there ?

Delhi & Ahmedabad were also violent

You have points to make then start.

Start reading the last few pages

Students protesting is not an issue provided they do it peacefully. Stone throwing, violence and arson is.

Since when do people throw stones outside Kashmir. That's radical influence right there.

No one is throwing stones or carrying out arson but BJP's youth wing to try and malign the students.. Where is your anger against the ABVP? The only radicals I see are the rabid Hindutvavaadis carrying sticks, batons and acid to attack unarmed students inside their university while the Delhi police wait outside for 3 hours allowing government thugs to carry out their attacks... even after the perpetrators have been identified not a single arrest.. even after ABVP members openly gloat about attacking students, not a single arrest.. ofcourse, you already know this.. we both do.. you're not here to convince me but to publish your daily dose of Sangji propaganda for foreign consumption.. too bad CNN, BBC and pretty much every major international news network has picked up on Indian government's BS.. so.. there's that..

The irony is how did an amendment to help people get their papers faster on the basis of religious persecution get turned into something anti-minority.

That was the agenda. To portray it as such


People were told muslims are being discriminated. By whom ? foreign players or domestic. If foreign then its info warfare.

A mass hysteria was whipped up and within ten days we get protests across 13 cities.

When was the last time that happened ? i cannot recall

Notes ban ? no

Triple talaq ? no

370 ? no

Ayodhya ? no

State of the economy ? still no

But CAA then all hell breaks loose

yeah...getting it now ?

These protests weren't genuine they were motivated

The ones in the NE are genuine and a harder problem to deal with

So you apply NRC and take away citizenship of most poor people of the country who until a generation back were mostly illiterate, living under the poverty line with little to no documents or papers to their name.. then you bring in the CAA to grant back citizenship to all the people whose religion is not Muslim.. then we get one step closer to the great Hindutva dream of making a large chunk of Indian Muslims stateless.. oh so benevolent...

As for hell breaking loose.. it's the BJP which couldn't fix the economy, couldn't create jobs, is sinking the markets, has made the Indian economy one of the worst performing in decades.. and yet they want to spend billions of dollars to implement NRC and CAA.. why? Because Ayodha verdict did not create a riot.. so moving on to the next big distraction.. anything but the state of the Indian economy..

[667medic]

No one is throwing stones or carrying out arson but BJP's youth wing to try and malign the students.. Where is your anger against the ABVP? The only radicals I see are the rabid Hindutvavaadis carrying sticks, batons and acid to attack unarmed students inside their university while the Delhi police wait outside for 3 hours allowing government thugs to carry out their attacks... even after the perpetrators have been identified not a single arrest.. even after ABVP members openly gloat about attacking students, not a single arrest.. ofcourse, you already know this.. we both do.. you're not here to convince me but to publish your daily dose of Sangji propaganda for foreign consumption.. too bad CNN, BBC and pretty much every major international news network has picked up on Indian government's BS.. so.. there's that..





So you apply NRC and take away citizenship of most poor people of the country who until a generation back were mostly illiterate, living under the poverty line with little to no documents or papers to their name.. then you bring in the CAA to grant back citizenship to all the people whose religion is not Muslim.. then we get one step closer to the great Hindutva dream of making a large chunk of Indian Muslims stateless.. oh so benevolent...

As for hell breaking loose.. it's the BJP which couldn't fix the economy, couldn't create jobs, is sinking the markets, has made the Indian economy one of the worst performing in decades.. and yet they want to spend billions of dollars to implement NRC and CAA.. why? Because Ayodha verdict did not create a riot.. so moving on to the next big distraction.. anything but the state of the Indian economy..

My understanding is that the NE was unhappy with the NRC since the number of people left out was lesser than those that they consider as outsiders. Then when the CAA came, they agitated as they assumed that the people left out by NRC will get even smaller as the Hindus among them will be given citizenship.

GOI hasn't yet specified if the NRC template in Assam will also be followed in rest of India. Assam is a special case as it has been the target of illegal immigration for decades, the rest of the country is not that bad off. So it is premature for people to assume that if NRC is implemented countrywide, it would follow the same stringent standards as Assam. I also noticed that the protests only took off at a massive level only when the CAA came out. The language in the CAA clearly says that it is a path for persecuted minorities to gain citizenship. What's the problem with that?

The big screw up I think was to include Afghanistan in it and to exclude Pakistani Ahmedias and Hazaras. If the BJP hadn't done that, it would have deflated a lot of dissenting voices since Bangladesh and Pakistan were erstwhile British Indian territories with significant Hindu people who were persecuted during and post-partition. Including Afghanistan needlessly muddled it as the libtards will ask why Myanmar(Rohingyas) can't be included.

[Tronic]

GOI hasn't yet specified if the NRC template in Assam will also be followed in rest of India. Assam is a special case as it has been the target of illegal immigration for decades, the rest of the country is not that bad off. So it is premature for people to assume that if NRC is implemented countrywide, it would follow the same stringent standards as Assam.

So you're saying that the NRC bill implemented in Assam, which the government wants to 'expand' to the rest of India, will now somehow be different.. is there a second NRC bill being written that we don't know of?

I also noticed that the protests only took off at a massive level only when the CAA came out. The language in the CAA clearly says that it is a path for persecuted minorities to gain citizenship. What's the problem with that?

Yea because NRC snatches away people's citizenship which ticked people off but then the government passed CAA which says we will grant everyone their citizenship back, unless you happen to be a Muslim..

As a person who had long given up hope that India was lost to the dogs and that it had become just another religious thumping nutbag country, seeing these protests really gives me hope how the next generation is actually fighting for progressive 21st century morals and ideals against a petty, small hearted and minded government stuck in the 1400s..

The big screw up I think was to include Afghanistan in it and to exclude Pakistani Ahmedias and Hazaras. If the BJP hadn't done that, it would have deflated a lot of dissenting voices since Bangladesh and Pakistan were erstwhile British Indian territories with significant Hindu people who were persecuted during and post-partition. Including Afghanistan needlessly muddled it as the libtards will ask why Myanmar(Rohingyas) can't be included.

No, Libtards will not ask for Rohingyas to be included.. those libtards want the Indian government to not discriminate people based on their religion, in the 21st century.. but they just can't see the big picture like the Sanghis and their Bhakts..

I don't think the bill itself would have created such a ruckus had the government only brought in CAA rather than use the NRC to strip people of their citizenship and make them stateless.. CAA basically has been designed so that any non-Muslims who cannot get through the NRC process be granted their citizenship back using the CAA while the Muslims become stateless.

[Double Edge]

No one is throwing stones or carrying out arson but BJP's youth wing to try and malign the students.. Where is your anger against the ABVP? The only radicals I see are the rabid Hindutvavaadis carrying sticks, batons and acid to attack unarmed students inside their university while the Delhi police wait outside for 3 hours allowing government thugs to carry out their attacks... even after the perpetrators have been identified not a single arrest.. even after ABVP members openly gloat about attacking students, not a single arrest..

Which university are you referring to ?

ofcourse, you already know this.. we both do.. you're not here to convince me but to publish your daily dose of Sangji propaganda for foreign consumption..

What does this mean ? anyone that does not agree with you : )

Countering opposition agendas, yeah i will be doing that. Not interested in false campaigns and attention seeking agendas

Had this been the UPA era i'd be doing the same.

You already know this...we both do...had it been Congress that introduced CAA there'd not be any song and dance about it : P

As for whether I can convince you depends how hard core partisan you are. I frequently spar with both sides.

too bad CNN, BBC and pretty much every major international news network has picked up on Indian government's BS.. so.. there's that..

Haha, and being called out on local channels . You'd know that if you read previous posts.

Do you follow any Indian news sources at all ?

As far as GOI is concerned what foreign govts say matters, foreign press not so much

So you apply NRC and take away citizenship of most poor people of the country who until a generation back were mostly illiterate, living under the poverty line with little to no documents or papers to their name.. then you bring in the CAA to grant back citizenship to all the people whose religion is not Muslim.. then we get one step closer to the great Hindutva dream of making a large chunk of Indian Muslims stateless.. oh so benevolent...

NRC = Assam
NRIC = India

There is no definition of NRIC to date. The govt has not put out anything. So people are going on the NRC experience and applying it to the rest of the country. Is that even valid ?

CAA is retroactive and has a cutoff date.
Does not cater to people who want to apply after that date.
Cannot be used for people already in the country as its only applicable to those that entered the country on the basis of religious persecution.

Taking away citizenship of most poor people ? Listen to this

For NRC Assam following are acceptable
- original NRC of 1951
- electoral rolls up to 24 March midnight
- land or tenancy record
- citizenship cert or permanent cert
- refugee registration cert
- passport
- LIC
- ration card
- any govt issued license cert
- govt/employment service cert
- bank or post office accounts
- birth cert
- board university education cert
- court records of processes

How many of us are worried we do not have such documents ?

If that isn't possible then three people who can vouch for you.

Now if you cannot do all that then what Sadhguru asks ? who the hell are you, applies : D

As for hell breaking loose.. it's the BJP which couldn't fix the economy, couldn't create jobs, is sinking the markets, has made the Indian economy one of the worst performing in decades.. and yet they want to spend billions of dollars to implement NRC and CAA.. why? Because Ayodha verdict did not create a riot.. so moving on to the next big distraction.. anything but the state of the Indian economy..

I'm ambivalent about NRIC. Already said so. You'd know this if you followed along. But you don't do that.

My arguments are primarily against the CAA protests.

CAA won't cost 'billions' of dollars as they already know who they are.

NRIC will cost a lot and given the Assam experience quite frankly does not inspire confidence in the govts ability to carry out such a massive exercise.

Economy has ups and downs. It will recover.

[Double Edge]

The big screw up I think was to include Afghanistan in it and to exclude Pakistani Ahmedias and Hazaras. If the BJP hadn't done that, it would have deflated a lot of dissenting voices since Bangladesh and Pakistan were erstwhile British Indian territories with significant Hindu people who were persecuted during and post-partition.

Ahmedias & Shias do not come to India. Shias go to Iran & Ahmediyas Bahrain or elsewhere.

Understand in India both Ahmedias & Shias are considered full muslims.

India is not going to enter into or endorse an argument that some muslims have with them.

When the idea of partition was floating around Ahmediyas were the loudest proponents for it. So not exactly the kind of people who are compatible with the idea of India. It's a bitter irony that later on they would end up being discriminated in Pakistan.

Muslims can apply for citizenship to India already like anybody else.

The process takes some 11 odd years.

CAA only halves the waiting period.

Including Afghanistan needlessly muddled it as the libtards will ask why Myanmar(Rohingyas) can't be included.

Why ? are there any non-muslim minorities in Burma that immigrated to India in the past on the basis of religious persecution ? No

Just like it did not happen from SL.

But there are those from Afghanistan that did so.

[Double Edge]

I don't think the bill itself would have created such a ruckus had the government only brought in CAA rather than use the NRC to strip people of their citizenship and make them stateless.. CAA basically has been designed so that any non-Muslims who cannot get through the NRC process be granted their citizenship back using the CAA while the Muslims become stateless.

India is not responsible for partition but has to deal with the consequences.

These stateless people, where did they come from ?

Should they not go back to the area designated for them

I find people want the equivalent of some broad refugee bill.

India isn't party to the UN convention of refugees 1951

[667medic]

Ahmedias & Shias do not come to India. Shias go to Iran & Ahmediyas Bahrain or elsewhere.

Understand in India both Ahmedias & Shias are considered full muslims.

India is not going to enter into or endorse an argument that some muslims have with them.

When the idea of partition was floating around Ahmediyas were the loudest proponents for it. So not exactly the kind of people who are compatible with the idea of India. It's a bitter irony that later on they would end up being discriminated in Pakistan.

Muslims can apply for citizenship to India already like anybody else.

The process takes some 11 odd years.

CAA only halves the waiting period.


Why ? are there any non-muslim minorities in Burma that immigrated to India in the past on the basis of religious persecution ? No

Just like it did not happen from SL.

But there are those from Afghanistan that did so.

My point is that including Ahmedis and Hazaras would have been a token gesture as they would migrate to other countries anyway but the CAA act wouldn't have looked partisan. CAA is a humanitarian gesture and it frankly looks pro-Hindu but why should that be a problem if it is viewed objectively. The Hindu refugees have nowhere to go and keeping them in a state of perpetual limbo only exacerbates the issue. Also, how come we didn't see similar level of protests when the pandits were kicked out of Kashmir because of their religion. That's why I feel that the protests that began in Assam got hijacked and also the protests seem to be confined only to so called elite institutions....

[Double Edge]

My point is that including Ahmedis and Hazaras would have been a token gesture as they would migrate to other countries anyway but the CAA act wouldn't have looked partisan. CAA is a humanitarian gesture and it frankly looks pro-Hindu but why should that be a problem if it is viewed objectively. The Hindu refugees have nowhere to go and keeping them in a state of perpetual limbo only exacerbates the issue.

The amount of people that will benefit from CAA is around 31k

25k hindus
5k odd sikhs
55 christians
2 parsis

Everything appears pro-hindu because hindus make up an overwhelming majority. Therefore when they migrate to neighbouring countries they inevitably make up the most numbers.

Over the weekend I was asked to comment on the state of minorities in India. Depends what frame of reference you take.

It is evident that when Hindus are in the majority that minorities do better ie numbers increase than how Hindus are treated as a minority where we see numbers of hindus decrease.

This answer did not impress people. Too bad.

Tronic reads this and nods his head saying see he has gone full retard sanghi. Conveniently ignoring the main point that we are talking about minorities here. I'm not seeing what their religion is. If a hindu marriage isn't recognised then neither is a sikh marriage and the women as far as people are concerned is still unmarried and liable for abduction and remarriage to a muslim in Pakistan. It really beggars belief that such things happen there !!

Also, how come we didn't see similar level of protests when the pandits were kicked out of Kashmir because of their religion.

Because the expulsion was hushed up. Just like the Nellie massacre. Why ? it could lead to unpredictable retribution anywhere in the country.

I now understand why some years back there was this sudden exodus of NE people from Bangalore. It started when rohingyas in Burma were being persecuted but got circulated as if it was happening in the NE.

That's why I feel that the protests that began in Assam got hijacked and also the protests seem to be confined only to so called elite institutions....

Protests in Assam gave others an opportunity to harass the govt.

Elite institutions is only in Delhi. In Bangalore & Chennai it was not colleges hogging the limelight. You still had students peacefully protesting. Course they impose Sec.144 so it did not last long.

[667medic]

The amount of people that will benefit from CAA is around 31k

25k hindus
5k odd sikhs
55 christians
2 parsis

Everything appears pro-hindu because hindus make up an overwhelming majority. Therefore when they migrate to neighbouring countries they inevitably make up the most numbers.

Over the weekend I was asked to comment on the state of minorities in India. Depends what frame of reference you take.

It is evident that when Hindus are in the majority that minorities do better ie numbers increase than how Hindus are treated as a minority where we see numbers of hindus decrease.

This answer did not impress people. Too bad.

Tronic reads this and nods his head saying see he has become full retard sanghi. Conveniently ignoring the main point that we are talking about minorities here. I'm not seeing what their religion is. If a hindu marriage isn't recognised then neither is a sikh marriage and the women as far as people are concerned is still unmarried and liable for abduction and remarriage to a muslim in Pakistan. It really beggars belief that such things happen there !!


Because the expulsion was hushed up. Just like the Nellie massacre. Why ? it could lead to unpredictable retribution anywhere in the country.

I now understand why some years back there was this sudden exodus of NE people from Bangalore. It started when rohingyas in Burma were being persecuted but got circulated as if it was happening in the NE.


Protests in Assam gave others an opportunity to harass the govt.

Elite institutions is only in Delhi. In Bangalore & Chennai it was not colleges hogging the limelight. You still had students peacefully protesting. Course they impose Sec.144 so it did not last long.

That's my point, I care about solving the problem and if adding a bit of icing will make it palatable then so be it. CAA should have included Ahmadis and Hazaras and then it would have appeared to be all inclusive. Even if Ahmadis and Hazaras come to India, it would have simply been a transit towards their eventual journey to Iran or even Western countries. What's clear is that the majority of the migrants are economic migrants and for those who are Hindu, they have the added burden of religious persecution.

The counter argument is that we are ignoring the Muslims who are getting persecuted in the aforementioned countries. The only Muslims who are persecuted in those countries are the Ahmadis, Shias and oddballs like Tarek Fatah and Tasleema Nasreen. Deliberately keeping them out only lends credibility to the counter argument that it is anti-Muslim. Furthermore, the counter argument would be for including persecuted minorities from other neighbors like Myanmar(Rohingia), which would be a bigger headache. Even you would agree that letting in Ahmadis and Hazaras is a less bitter pill to swallow than the Rohingyas, who are guaranteed to become a vote bank....

Regarding the protests in institutions especially in Chennai, it seems to be the usual suspects in the Humanities departments, majorityy of who are from Kerala. We hear about protests in IIT Chennai but don't get info of who are the students. IIT started getting involved in ppolitics oonly when they started a humanities department. This was evident during the pro-beef protest held in IIT Chennai a couple of years ago. I was surprised when I heard it and after some digging found out that it was all done by the humanities department students and the Keralite studies went on to do more provocative acts like organizing beef feasts in the university campus.

[Double Edge]

What's clear is that the majority of the migrants are economic migrants and for those who are Hindu, they have the added burden of religious persecution.

Unless they claim they entered India due to religious persecution they will be treated no differently than if they were muslims who came as economic migrants. As it would be very difficult to prove now that they were persecuted due to religion.

The counter argument is that we are ignoring the Muslims who are getting persecuted in the aforementioned countries. The only Muslims who are persecuted in those countries are the Ahmadis, Shias and oddballs like Tarek Fatah and Tasleema Nasreen.

We were ready to give Tasleema asylum but she had already obtained Swedish citizenship. India does not recognise dual nationality. Therefore for Tasleema to come to India she would have had to surrender Swedish nationality. She was not willing to do that. Also bear in mind Tasleema was not being religously persecuted. She was being persecuted on the basis of what she said. These types of cases the govt has said they will examine on a case by case basis.

Deliberately keeping them out only lends credibility to the counter argument that it is anti-Muslim. Furthermore, the counter argument would be for including persecuted minorities from other neighbors like Myanmar(Rohingia), which would be a bigger headache. Even you would agree that letting in Ahmadis and Hazaras is a less bitter pill to swallow than the Rohingyas, who are guaranteed to become a vote bank....

The reasoning behind CAA is the join comittee report if you want to look at. PDF

Regarding the protests in institutions especially in Chennai, it seems to be the usual suspects in the Humanities departments, majorityy of who are from Kerala. We hear about protests in IIT Chennai but don't get info of who are the students. IIT started getting involved in ppolitics oonly when they started a humanities department. This was evident during the pro-beef protest held in IIT Chennai a couple of years ago. I was surprised when I heard it and after some digging found out that it was all done by the humanities department students and the Keralite studies went on to do more provocative acts like organizing beef feasts in the university campus.

I've no problems with humanities department. More people should get into that subject instead of engineering or medicine. It would help if they did not go on these misleading campaigns.