Stalin killed Netaji, Subramanian Swamy says

[Oracle]

Bose's legacy remains unfinished beyond india

Exactly. No one knows whether he was devoured by the wolves in Siberia or the crows in Formosa.

[anil]

Bose's legacy remains unfinished beyond india

[Officer of Engineers]

Still, couldn't hold on to India and calm the various mutinies breaking out down.

Again, so what? The writing was on the wall after the initial military disasters of WWI. The largest army within the British Empire without a political voice was not going to last forever. Indian Independence or Dominance within the British Empire was inevitable.

Still essentially remain British.

And your point is? Do you know how many Princes and Princesses you have that can marry into the Royal Family and start Indianizing the House of Windsor?

The other nationalist leaders were trying to do that to no success.

Let me get this straight. No one could have stopped 2.5 million Indian men from fighting for the British crown. And you thought Bose had a chance in hell of defeating this army?

And all these were okay killing ~1000 Japanese 2nd/3rd in command,

Try 2.5 million+ and at least 10 million wounded.

but didn't raise a finger on the supreme authority. The one man they all suffered because of?

If you are referring to the Japanese, the one man responsible, Hideki Tojo, was hanged.

And if USA had agreed to liberate India, this situation would not have arisen!

Now, why would the US want to do that? Doing what she did, she had a 2.5 million man British Indian Army fighting along her side. Doing what you suggest, at best, she would have 45K man Indian National Army that she now had to equipped. I say siding with Bose would have been an idiotic dumb mistake.

As I said, very convenient and shrewd.

You're blaming the Americans for not coming to an alliance that never existed. You're reaching.

[popillol]

Great Britain was NOT reduced to a 2nd rate power. She was still far more than capable of launching offensives of her choosing and she won both the Battle of the Atlantic and the Battle of Britain.

Still, couldn't hold on to India and calm the various mutinies breaking out down.

And shift the capital of the British Empire from London to Dehli ... but that is another thread.

Still essentially remain British.

How about just the easiest one? Convince British Indian soldiers to stay at home, not to join up. What's the Brits going to do? Send an army? From where?

The other nationalist leaders were trying to do that to no success.

Because you're getting sidetracked from the reasons to the actual conduct of the war.

To save Japan from extreme punishing occupation. To sate American, Chinese, British, Korean, and Australian blood lust.

And all these were okay killing ~1000 Japanese 2nd/3rd in command, but didn't raise a finger on the supreme authority. The one man they all suffered because of?

Yes, he did. The INA actively sought to use Burma as the spring board into India and to deny Burma from the Allies which was of vital importance to keep China in the war.

And if USA had agreed to liberate India, this situation would not have arisen!

The US was not a member of CENTO.

As I said, very convenient and shrewd.

[antimony]

But who the hell said anything about killing Bose? There was no assassination attempt nor was he a primary target even for the Brits. If captured, he would face the books but there was no special glee for his demise. There were far more important targets to be achieved and I hate to burst more myths for you but Bose was extremely low on the list of target priorities. Hell, he's even off the list.

Bigfella seemed quite gleeful at the prospect of Bose having been snuffed by Stalin. That is what I am talking about

the rest of the history, we have already gone over

[Officer of Engineers]

I meant Germans reducing UK to second rate power.

Great Britain was NOT reduced to a 2nd rate power. She was still far more than capable of launching offensives of her choosing and she won both the Battle of the Atlantic and the Battle of Britain.

Without that, Gandhi fighting under British laws could have got at max Dominion status for India.

And shift the capital of the British Empire from London to Dehli ... but that is another thread.

What were they? The Britishers had backtracked after the First World War too.

How about just the easiest one? Convince British Indian soldiers to stay at home, not to join up. What's the Brits going to do? Send an army? From where?

This is the strangest point from you.

Because you're getting sidetracked from the reasons to the actual conduct of the war.

If nobody cared, why were there such a large number of trials held for other Japanese criminals?

To save Japan from extreme punishing occupation. To sate American, Chinese, British, Korean, and Australian blood lust.

Bose also never fought against USA, just an ally of USA.

Yes, he did. The INA actively sought to use Burma as the spring board into India and to deny Burma from the Allies which was of vital importance to keep China in the war.

Just like Indira Gandhi never fought against USA just an ally of USA (CENTO).

The US was not a member of CENTO.

[popillol]

Could have fooled me with telling the RIN go back to their ships.

No, they didn't. That's why Bose went to Japan.

I meant Germans reducing UK to second rate power. Without that, Gandhi fighting under British laws could have got at max Dominion status for India.

For Bose? No. He's not a military man. He did not have the training to see the options before him and there were viable options without siding with the Japanese.

What were they? The Britishers had backtracked after the First World War too.

Again, who cares? We are talking on how the war was conducted. Mercy was neither asked nor given.

This is the strangest point from you.
If nobody cared, why were there such a large number of trials held for other Japanese criminals?

Against Pakistan. Not against the US.

Bose also never fought against USA, just an ally of USA. Just like Indira Gandhi never fought against USA just an ally of USA (CENTO).

[Officer of Engineers]

As is clearly stated in the wiki article, Bose was not aware of the atrocities. And he was trying to get help from wherever he could. He had to fight his enemy one at a time. He never had plenty of resources that he could fight British and the Japanese at the same time. And as I stated before, USA didn't send any troops to root out the British, and then wants nobody to fight against it at the same time.

Oh bullshit. His GG resigned. Tell me that Bose didn't asked why?

[Officer of Engineers]

To free India, Bose had to go against the British. Gandhi all by himself could not have freed India.

Could have fooled me with telling the RIN go back to their ships.

The Germans made it possible indirectly for India.

No, they didn't. That's why Bose went to Japan.

Not much options for Bose you see.

For Bose? No. He's not a military man. He did not have the training to see the options before him and there were viable options without siding with the Japanese.

And the British were criminals for their actions in India.

Not disputing that. You have grievances. A lot are legitimate. But that does not change the fact that Japan was far more terrible. Ghandi was put in jail for QUIT INDIA. The Japanese drum fake charges just so that they could have live bayonet training.

Hirohito signed all the documents, he was AWARE and yet gave HIS AUTHORITY. Why wasn't he charged with class A war crimes? You approve terrible things to happen under you, you are responsible for it. Why was there not even a trial held against him?

Again, who cares? We are talking on how the war was conducted. Mercy was neither asked nor given.

Indira Gandhi completed her objectives of creating Bangladesh. She succeeded. Her objective was not altering strategic position vis-a-vis USA. Yet, USA acted like an enemy but failed to help her ally - Pakistan. Meeting your objectives is considered victory.

Against Pakistan. Not against the US.

[popillol]

What of the Andamen Islands?

Japanese occupation of the Andaman Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ABOUT ONE THING. The Japanese jailed and tortured members of Bose's own India Independence League. The man clearly could not even protect his own people, let alone Indian citizens.

Indian citizens, under the "rule of The Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind," were forced into slave labour, forced into brothels as comfort women, ie raped. His GG, AD Loganathan, could not stop the Homfreyganj massacre.

Maybe you want to call him patriot. Everybody else, including the Japanese have another name. Stooge.

As is clearly stated in the wiki article, Bose was not aware of the atrocities. And he was trying to get help from wherever he could. He had to fight his enemy one at a time. He never had plenty of resources that he could fight British and the Japanese at the same time. And as I stated before, USA didn't send any troops to root out the British, and then wants nobody to fight against it at the same time.

[popillol]

Then, there are those of us who studied the war and knows what the reality is.

No, she did not. The USSR did.

No, she did conquered Japan. She bombed her to smitherenes and the Japanese surrendered. There is a difference. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Ask any American on the street who Bose is and he will give you a blank stare. Hell, ask any Japanese right wing militarist who Bose is and he will also give you a blank stare.

But that does not change the FACTS one single iota. The INA sided with the IJE and fought in Burma where British, British Indian, Australian, American, and Chinese forces were fighting side by side against the Japanese. According to the Geneva Conventions, Bose and the INA WERE THE ENEMY COMBATTANT. Those are the legal facts whether you like them or not.

What the hell are you pulling red herrings out of your ass for? What has this got to do with anything that soldiers on both sides refused to accept each other surrender and fought/killed to the last man?

And FYI, Hitler was never punished.

Because he was winning when those crimes happenned.

And Hirohito was villified just as Bose is villified and never bought to trial.

Victorious? You've got some wierd definition. At best, Indira won brownie points at home. Changed the strategic picture absolutely zero vis-a-vi the US.

That is the ONLY point. Mahatma Gandhi did not declared himself the enemy of the US. And legally speaking, neither did he declared himself the enemy of the British Empire. His "Quit India" speech at the time was protected under British Indian Law. At no time did he nor Congress campaigned against the war.

To free India, Bose had to go against the British. Gandhi all by himself could not have freed India. The Germans made it possible indirectly for India. Not much options for Bose you see. And the British were criminals for their actions in India.

Hirohito signed all the documents, he was AWARE and yet gave HIS AUTHORITY. Why wasn't he charged with class A war crimes? You approve terrible things to happen under you, you are responsible for it. Why was there not even a trial held against him?

Indira Gandhi completed her objectives of creating Bangladesh. She succeeded. Her objective was not altering strategic position vis-a-vis USA. Yet, USA acted like an enemy but failed to help her ally - Pakistan, despite its obligation to as a part of CENTO. Meeting your objectives is considered victory.

Had it not been for WW2, Mahatma Gandhi could have only got Dominion status to India by fighting within British laws.

[Officer of Engineers]

And INA escaped this butchery and Bose was able to make an attempt to fight for India. Two shots with one arrow. And this more or less states that Bose was not a Japanese stooge.

What of the Andamen Islands?

Japanese occupation of the Andaman Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR ABOUT ONE THING. The Japanese jailed and tortured members of Bose's own India Independence League. The man clearly could not even protect his own people, let alone Indian citizens.

Indian citizens, under the "rule of The Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind," were forced into slave labour, forced into brothels as comfort women, ie raped. His GG, AD Loganathan, could not stop the Homfreyganj massacre.

Maybe you want to call him patriot. Everybody else, including the Japanese have another name. Stooge.

[Officer of Engineers]

Thats what I am saying, victorious write the history.

Then, there are those of us who studied the war and knows what the reality is.

USA conquered Germany

No, she did not. The USSR did.

and Japan, so wrote histories according to her convenience.

No, she did conquered Japan. She bombed her to smitherenes and the Japanese surrendered. There is a difference. A BIG DIFFERENCE.

But USA didn't conquer India, so can't write history for India according to USA's convenience.

Ask any American on the street who Bose is and he will give you a blank stare. Hell, ask any Japanese right wing militarist who Bose is and he will also give you a blank stare.

But that does not change the FACTS one single iota. The INA sided with the IJE and fought in Burma where British, British Indian, Australian, American, and Chinese forces were fighting side by side against the Japanese. According to the Geneva Conventions, Bose and the INA WERE THE ENEMY COMBATTANT. Those are the legal facts whether you like them or not.

And if Hitler was only responsible for Barbarossa and not Holocaust, there would be many Hitler sympathizers.

What the hell are you pulling red herrings out of your ass for? What has this got to do with anything that soldiers on both sides refused to accept each other surrender and fought/killed to the last man?

And FYI, Hitler was never punished.

But, it is quite strange, when Hirohito had the authority to stop the crimes but didn't, why is he not held responsible?

Because he was winning when those crimes happenned.

Quite nonsense thing to say.

And Hirohito was villified just as Bose is villified and never bought to trial.

I am talking about intentions, Indira was a patriot same as Bose, both made USA their enemies (which was again, I would say from my perspective USA's own doing) but one came out victorious while the other was martyred.

Victorious? You've got some wierd definition. At best, Indira won brownie points at home. Changed the strategic picture absolutely zero vis-a-vi the US.

Now, since we live in a world where we believe in deontological ethics rather than following consequentialism, both were great leaders for India. That was my point and not that Mahatma Gandhi didn't sign a pact with IJE.

That is the ONLY point. Mahatma Gandhi did not declared himself the enemy of the US. And legally speaking, neither did he declared himself the enemy of the British Empire. His "Quit India" speech at the time was protected under British Indian Law. At no time did he nor Congress campaigned against the war.

[popillol]

Bose did make US an enemy by raising troops against the British. It's common sense. It was WWII. But US didn't reciprocate that well, else Bose would surely have gone to the wolves, if not the crows.

Told you already the difference between fault and intentionally doing it.

What shit you smoke or books you read that I haven't? US didn't interfere in anything, directly or indirectly. After Pearl Harbor they had bigger fish to fry. What did I say in post # 42?

The Allied fought as one, or did they have different strategic objectives?

Pakistan was richer than India?

Yet, it spent much on military. A waste of resources. Again off-topic.

Why would the Americans?

So, they shouldn't mind being seen as an enemy. They fought with the British as allies.

You certainly do not, your ego does. If you did care, you'd have gone at lengths filing an RTI or a PIL in the Apex court, or read damn History.

Don't you know its classified. And besides, I don't jump with glee at the news of his death or say that crows feasted on his body casually.

[popillol]

Bose knew the IJA were shooting Indian POWs and eating them. Ironic?

And INA escaped this butchery and Bose was able to make an attempt to fight for India. Two shots with one arrow. And this more or less states that Bose was not a Japanese stooge. You can read Bose's character, he was famous for his patriotism before INA came into being.

Indira made US an enemy? A country has to go to lengths to make US an enemy and fear retribution. India during Indira? Not so much.

What would you call a nation who threatens you with nukes and prevents you from achieving your nation's objectives?
Atleast the Americans call such a behaviour as that of an enemy. Example: Bose threatened USA's objectives by launching an attack against the British undermining USA's war-time objectives though Bose never attacked USA! Same goes for USA's actions during 1971.