Samurai against knight

[entropy]

what about martial arts?

Which ones?

Italian condottiere captains, and certain Prussian and British swordsmen had techniques that by far surpassed Eastern styles. Less flashy, more pragmatic, efficient and combat-oriented.

[zraver]

Which ones?

Italian condottiere captains, and certain Prussian and British swordsmen had techniques that by far surpassed Eastern styles. Less flashy, more pragmatic, efficient and combat-oriented.

Fighting up close and personal with edged or blunt weapons in addiction to kicks and punches is martial arts.

Personally, I think the samurai would be trying to figure how to get past the kite shield when he would suddenly lose several teeth from it followed by a plunging thrust through the gut while he was on the ground spitting blood and bits of teeth. The Japanese did not fight with them so conceiving of the shield as an offensive tool and not just protection is to much of a leap for me to buy.

[entropy]

Fighting up close and personal with edged or blunt weapons in addiction to kicks and punches is martial arts.

Personally, I think the samurai would be trying to figure how to get past the kite shield when he would suddenly lose several teeth from it followed by a plunging thrust through the gut while he was on the ground spitting blood and bits of teeth. The Japanese did not fight with them so conceiving of the shield as an offensive tool and not just protection is to much of a leap for me to buy.

The Japanese did not use shields?

Their cavalry did.

[zraver]

The Japanese did not use shields?

Their cavalry did.

source? Only thing I see is a small wicker/laguered bamboo device that is obviously not intended for use as a weapon.

[entropy]

The mon was worn on three places. Traditionally, a samurai or general would not use a shield in a classical 'western' sense, instead using the large yumi (war bow), the two sword style of dai-sho (katana and wakazashi) or occasionally a two-handed dai-katana or polearm. If a shield was used, it was a large tower shield that was stood in front of the samurai and used as a defensive position whilst he fired arrows from behind it. In addition, a large mon was worn upon the back of the warrior, and the design is replicated in miniature upon each breast in front. Some samurai and generals would travel into battle with a flag attached to their backs, emblazoned with the mon. In the event that armor was not worn, the mon would be displayed in the above pattern on a ceremonial daimon, suo or kataginu.

An Essay on Mons

Used by archers.

You're right. I must have been mistaken by the plates of the armor.

Do you know the reason for not using them?

[zraver]

An Essay on Mons

Used by archers.

You're right. I must have been mistaken by the plates of the armor.

Do you know the reason for not using them?

Ritual and tradition would be my guess, they (Japan in general) knew what they were in concept via the Mongols and Koreans, although I do not know if either of them took the shield offensively. I think the average samurai put up against the average knight will go down quick with a shield bash.

[Officer of Engineers]

For the very same simple reason their armour is not up to par, lack of proper materials to build good shields.

[astralis]

hm, the lightly-armored muslims did pretty well against the knights during the crusades, right? how did they pull that off??

Oh lord, another one of those East is The Warrior Way of Life shouters.

you should have seen it when "fearless" came out in asia- i think every chinese nationalist fanboy thought himself the Master of All Martial Arts.

YouTube - Jet Li's Fearless (2006) - Huo Yuan Jia v. Foreign Experts

[Parihaka]

hm, the lightly-armored muslims did pretty well against the knights during the crusades, right? how did they pull that off??

We're talking one on one and you're talking campaigns but in answer to your question, logistics.

[Officer of Engineers]

hm, the lightly-armored muslims did pretty well against the knights during the crusades,

Lightly armoured muslims?

They have chain mailed on par with the crusaders.

you should have seen it when "fearless" came out in asia- i think every chinese nationalist fanboy thought himself the Master of All Martial Arts.

Two words - Boxer Rebellion

[troung]

hm, the lightly-armored muslims did pretty well against the knights during the crusades, right? how did they pull that

The Muslim heavy cavalry would be pretty well equipped. Elite units wouldn't have been too much different from the Knights.

Turkic/Steppe armies (Mamlukes/Seljuks) fought different then the samurai would so their successes wouldn't be duplicated in such a way by a Samurai army. Feigned retreats, arrow barrages and combining heavy and light cavalry worked well against European knights.

The Samurai weren't thinking that way.

[entropy]

For the very same simple reason their armour is not up to par, lack of proper materials to build good shields.

I guess wood was available in Japan?

[Officer of Engineers]

Not enough hardwood.

[tankie]

what about martial arts?

What about a 7.62 through the head, as in raiders of the lost ark , his sword was crap wasnt it . :)) ahh but i digress ,, i think the knights would be superior for most reasons already mentioned .

[Big K]

What about a 7.62 through the head, as in raiders of the lost ark , his sword was crap wasnt it . :)) ahh but i digress ,, i think the knights would be superior for most reasons already mentioned .

i prefer 9mm?? :)

hehe yes i see the arguments but i still disagree