Originally posted by mentalelemental
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Samurai against knight
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostYou do know that the Samuari sucked against the Mongols. There is a difference between good warriors and being good soldiers. The Samuari couldn't hold a formation if their lives depended on it ... and it did when they faced the Mongols.
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EXACTLY!!!!
The point here is that the Samuari was not the end-all, be-all of military warfare and to be frank, neither is the Ninja. You have to examine how both are employed. I don't care how good you are, you cannot stop the laws of physics. There is no way a 250 lb man (with armour) can stop the momentum of a 800lb horse,
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostEXACTLY!!!!
The point here is that the Samuari was not the end-all, be-all of military warfare and to be frank, neither is the Ninja. You have to examine how both are employed. I don't care how good you are, you cannot stop the laws of physics. There is no way a 250 lb man (with armour) can stop the momentum of a 800lb horse,
you are correct, however
1>mongels siezed a fort with small numbers just to access what the resistance would be like for a massive full on invasion. they tactically withdrew deeming that such an invasion is doable. it wasnt like the mongols really tested the japanese.
2>japan never experienced the famed horse-archer calvary, thier first engagements was<a siege, something the mongols were the best at anyway> a complete and utter suprise to the japanese, a completely alien,foriegn invader from which the japanese, inept, BUT were also cautious.
3>when the full scale invasion was mobilized the mongols sent small boats ahead to sight areas for troop landings, these were ambushed and when the samurai boarded these crafts they slaughtered the mongols.<there is alot of art dedicated to these ambushes>
4>the force mobilized had alot of koreans and chinese in thier ranks, the book i read never said if these troops were inferior or mongol-trained "horde style" as horsearchers. either way we all know what happened........they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
5>centuries later the japanese invaded korea and fought the koreans and chinese at the same time to a stalemate<much like our war minus the rusky fighter jets>. it was a disasterous campaign<for the japanese, of course> but the the rulership in china was bankrupt at the end of that war. even tho it was a big waste of time, money and lives, it was impressive what a completely outnumbered japan can do when they put thier mind to it.
if the samurai could get the mongols off thier horses, then they may POSSIBLY be defeated<the vietnamese jungle comes to mind when the mongels were stopped there>. also note that samurai train as horse archers themselves.
the japanese have that uncanny abilitie to assimilate,adapt,immitate etc. they were very much like the romans where, if defeated, they go right back to the drawing board and copy/modify/adapt to the people who kicked thier ass and let them taste either thier own medicine or a slightly modified version of it.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThe only problem with your scenario is that by the time the Japanese learned enough to deal with the Mongols and to invade the Korean penisula, the Western powers have long adopted the musket.
Musket tactics such as the rotating volley fire were in full use at this time.
Don't be fooled by Hollywood. Samurai's abhoring the use of fire arms as not honorable is a myth. The use of fire arms was abolished by the first Shogun.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThe only problem with your scenario is that by the time the Japanese learned enough to deal with the Mongols and to invade the Korean penisula, the Western powers have long adopted the musket.
Musket tactics such as the rotating volley fire were in full use at this time.
Don't be fooled by Hollywood. Samurai's abhoring the use of fire arms as not honorable is a myth. The use of fire arms was abolished by the first Shogun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tempo-p1000697.jpg
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i'd put my money on samurai, all he needs to do is knock a knight off his hourse, knights can't get up fast, if at all by them selves, samurai is highly mobile, i don't know how well knights armor will stand against katana, but samurai will find an uncovered spot."Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
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If you're assuming that the knight is mounted and the samurai is not, then I would put my money on the knight. Sure, IF somehow the samurai knocks him off his horse the knight is likely dead. But that's a little like saying, in a fight between someone with a gun vs. someone with a knife, all the knife wielding combatant has to do is knock the gun out of his opponent's hands...
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Originally posted by deadkenny View PostIf you're assuming that the knight is mounted and the samurai is not, then I would put my money on the knight. Sure, IF somehow the samurai knocks him off his horse the knight is likely dead. But that's a little like saying, in a fight between someone with a gun vs. someone with a knife, all the knife wielding combatant has to do is knock the gun out of his opponent's hands..."Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
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Originally posted by omon View Postgood point, but i'd still bet on samurai, mounted or not, he can move fast, knight not so fast.
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