Russia turns spotlight on abortion

[Praxus]

Humans were created by God.

Can you give me a single peice of objective evidence that God exsists. Also don't say "You give me evidence he doesn't" because the accuser always has to prove his point, unles the person he is talking to is unrational, which I am clearly not.

What makes a Human a Human is the ability to carry out Rational Thought and Reason. In other words we have free will. That is the single thing that Humans can do and other Animals can not. This is what makes life precious. A child in a womb can not reason and it can not carry out rational thought. Thus it is not HUMAN.

If you were that kid would you rather grow up poor or not grow up at all?

Something that never exsisted as a rational human being can not make such decisions.

So if something causes you pain you should kill it. What if the child is born then you have to raise it, but if that gets tiring just kill the kid right?

No the Child after it is born begins to be able to reason and have free-will thus it has rights.

[Leader]

Originally posted by Praxus
Can you give me a single peice of objective evidence that God exsists. Also don't say "You give me evidence he doesn't" because the accuser always has to prove his point, unles the person he is talking to is unrational, which I am clearly not.

What makes a Human a Human is the ability to carry out Rational Thought and Reason. In other words we have free will. That is the single thing that Humans can do and other Animals can not. This is what makes life precious. A child in a womb can not reason and it can not carry out rational thought. Thus it is not HUMAN.



Something that never exsisted as a rational human being can not make such decisions.


No the Child after it is born begins to be able to reason and have free-will thus it has rights.

I not here to convince you that God exists. It took me long enough to convince myself. If you don't want to believe in God, that's a respectable opinion. If you want my personal logic here it is: I exist therefore I was created therefore there is a creator.

As to abortion is a 9-month-old fetus any less capable of having free will and being able to reason then a newborn child?

[Jay]

As to abortion is a 9-month-old fetus any less capable of having free will and being able to reason then a newborn child?

ofcourse a 9 month old fetus breathes/eats/survives in its MOTHERS WOMB, while a new born is independent, though it is dependant on its mom for food.

If you were that kid would you rather grow up poor or not grow up at all?

If you cannot give a decent life to your kid...whats the point ?? you want another person to come in to your life and suffer with you??

Does it ever occur to these pro-abortion people that if these poor malnourished people didn't go around screwing every fifth person they saw on the street that they wouldn't need to have an abortion. If you can take care of a kid don't have sex. Is that really that hard?

hah...We all know drinking kills your liver, smoking gives cancer and drugs are gonna kill your brain. Have we stopped doing it?? Or lets say y do you want the govt to control drugs??
why are we spending billions on dollars on it?? People will make mistakes, and if they think that this is gonna solve it, they entitled to do so.

BR,
My answer would be 50/50. I would seriously ask her to abort it, reason she already has 8 kids that need special attention. Given the track record, she cannot raise the kid properly. ITs better to abort it, rather than giving birth to one and make them suffer for your sins.

[Ziska]

Jay, surely the doctors and money spent on performing abortions would be better spent elsewhere?

Especially if 20% of the country is in poverty. Condoms and contraciptives are stacks cheaper than abortions.

What did these people do before abortions?

[Jay]

The money spent on abortion would be far less than the money govt will spend for the upliftment and social security in developed countries and it just increases the count of mal nourished, under weight child in a Street for a developing nation.

Ofcourse as i said, cigarattes cost less than chemotherapy and other medicines, what do the people choose??

Abortions have been going on India for the past 30 years, knowingly or un-knowingly. If there is no abortion obviously the number of orphan and destitute kids will increase.

For a developing country its another social, law & order burden.

[Ziska]

And killing off the elderly would remove some social burden too. It doesn't make it right.

In the end though, objections have to come from a religious ground. Rational thought will allow anything, as we can see.

God says murder is sin, and that is that.

[Jay]

So havent you killed a single life in all these years ?? Even an ant is a life form and it holds the same weightage as you do.
How can you rationalize a thought based on religion ?? May be we ought to count the number of living things that we kill everyday.

In that case every one is a sinner, and if abortion makes the life of the parents better, then its gonna be another sin, x+1.

so objections based on religion is just a weak arguement.

[Praxus]

And killing off the elderly would remove some social burden too. It doesn't make it right.

In the end though, objections have to come from a religious ground. Rational thought will allow anything, as we can see.

God says murder is sin, and that is that.

This is a problem with Socialism, if we were a Capitalist system their would be no burden on anyone but the elderly or their family. Which is rightfuly so.

But hey that's just my opinion.

So far, the only reason you say Abortion is wrong because God says so. That is a pretty weak case.

[bigross86]

BR, I would seriously ask her to abort it, reason she already has 8 kids that need special attention. Given the track record, she cannot raise the kid properly. ITs better to abort it, rather than giving birth to one and make them suffer for your sins.

Way to go, dude. You just killed Beethoven's fetus. Now who's gonna compose all the beautiful music like Four Elise and Ode to Joy?

[Jay]

errrrr :alien

well, if u insist i'll compose it :w00t

Praxus,
In USA we follow Capatilism, but arent we supporting destitute kids and elderly thorugh social security ?? may be a lil twist of socialism in capatilism ??

[Ziska]

Great, so in Praxus' capitalist society people would do away with their ageing parents instead of the state. In a socialist state, the people would just stand by whilst the state killed off their parents. Either way, the state and the people consent to the killing, so it makes no difference if it is in a capitalist or a socialist system.

Opposing something on a religious basis is the strongest one there possibly can be. I believe that human life is given by God, and is for God to take away. Animals were created to serve man, and we can kill them as we see fit.

Look at someone like Stephen Hawking. Surely he would have been a prime candidate for abortion, if his parents were of the mind. Thankfully, he lives, and so do many thousands of people who benefit our society despite their disabilities.

And everyone sins, yes. But the point is we try not to sin. We slip, and are weak yes, but we try to keep His law. So, we make laws to help us. Laws against stealing, murder, and so on and so forth.

If you were of that mind (ie, that we are all sinners, what's one more) what stops you from killing someone who annoys you?

[Leader]

Originally posted by Jay
ofcourse a 9 month old fetus breathes/eats/survives in its MOTHERS WOMB, while a new born is independent, though it is dependant on its mom for food.

Thanks for campletely ignoring the question.

If you cannot give a decent life to your kid...whats the point ?? you want another person to come in to your life and suffer with you??

What if the child is already born should you kill it then to save it a tramatic life.

hah...We all know drinking kills your liver, smoking gives cancer and drugs are gonna kill your brain. Have we stopped doing it?? Or lets say y do you want the govt to control drugs??
why are we spending billions on dollars on it?? People will make mistakes, and if they think that this is gonna solve it, they entitled to do so.

You know what would save all my problems? If I could just walk up to Bill Gates shoot him in the head and take all his money. I entitled to that right?

[Jay]

Opposing something on a religious basis is the strongest one there possibly can be. I believe that human life is given by God, and is for God to take away. Animals were created to serve man, and we can kill them as we see fit.

heh...its survival of the fittest! not the way as you paint!!

What if the child is already born should you kill it then to save it a tramatic life.

the child is independent now! they had a choice to abort it and they missed it!!!

You know what would save all my problems? If I could just walk up to Bill Gates shoot him in the head and take all his money. I entitled to that right?

ofcourse, its your wish. Another "Leader" is gonna do the same thing to you.
Abortion is not a crime and abortion is not killing some one.

[Leader]

Originally posted by Jay
the child is independent now! they had a choice to abort it and they missed it!!!

A newborn child is no more independent when it leaves the womb then when it was in it was in it. It still needs its mother to provide food, water and protection, which the mother is morally obligated to provide.

Abortion is not a crime and abortion is not killing some one.

It is killing someone. An unborn child is a separate human individual. There is no difference between an unborn child and a newborn. Both are completely dependent on their mother. Both are live. Both are human. And, in both cases the mother has a moral obligation to protect the child, born of unborn.