Sikhs Challenge U.S. Army's Ban on Turbans, Beards

[RustyBattleship]

If we are to give in to every worldly request to submit to religious wear for specific groups you could end up with a uniform that includes a kilt ,turban, seal boots,spears, boomerangs,and beaver pelts, all dangling from various appendages and hidden National uniforms. Imagine what the ration pack would consist off......"man",I don,t want to go there.:))

That was a big problem for Hannibal. His logistics problems probably weakened him as some units wanted special shields made out of a certain animal, etc.

As for Gas Masks for the Navy aboard ships, there is one other item (attached to every bunk) that requires a clean shave. That is the EOBA (Emergency Oxygen Breating Apparatus) that fits (sort of) over your nose and mouth with 2 or 3 minutes of Oxygen to get out of a burning compartment.

[Canmoore]

I think that people serving in the military should be allowed to wear turbins or have beards if they want to. However, if it impedes there own safety (helmets and NBC equipment) than they should be removed.

How many catholics keep a rosmary, crusifix, or St.Christopher medallion in there pockets when in combat to keep them safe?

I am sure that many faiths have there own small trinkets and religious items on them. The only difference is that a turbin can not be smuggled in a pocket.

[Cactus]

How does the beard and turban effect one's fighting capabilities? If so, a huge portion of the Indian Army should be combat ineffective.

Out of genuine curiosity, Major, what do they plan to do if/when they have to use gas-masks in an NBC battle-field?

I sense a market for turban shaped kevlar helmets.

Gunnut, if one wears a helmet he won't wear a turban beneath it... he may wear a thin patka (a bandanna or a tight cap) to keep the hair tied-up and in place. Russians do something like it all the time.

[gunnut]

Gunnut, if one wears a helmet he won't wear a turban beneath it... he may wear a thin patka (a bandanna or a tight cap) to keep the hair tied-up and in place. Russians do something like it all the time.

What if the turban itself IS a helmet?

[HistoricalDavid]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph...re_797268c.jpg

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/i...clinic1_hr.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...4_rir2_416.jpg

What a bewildering array of headdress, and yet it works. Why? Because it reflects the variety in cultural tradition which makes up the British Army, by adding a special flavour to a common uniform and thus a common idea and loyalty. And considering the even greater diversity of the United States it would be a good idea to allow such small variations. A well-trimmed beard and a well-kept turban look just as snazzy as your standard beret anyway.

[HistoricalDavid]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph...re_797268c.jpg

http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/i...clinic1_hr.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...4_rir2_416.jpg

What a bewildering array of headdress, and yet it works. Why? Because it reflects the variety in cultural tradition which makes up the British Army, by adding a special flavour to a common uniform and thus a common idea and loyalty. And considering the even greater diversity of the United States it would be a good idea to allow such small variations. A well-trimmed beard and a well-kept turban look just as snazzy as your standard beret anyway.

[silentsam]

How many catholics keep a rosmary, crusifix, or St.Christopher medallion in there pockets when in combat to keep them safe?

I am sure that many faiths have there own small trinkets and religious items on them. The only difference is that a turbin can not be smuggled in a pocket.

There is no discrimination here. A Roman Catholic (or a multitude of other religions) who wants to have his/her cross or religious medallion on display is prohibited, with the necklace having to be out of sight. All of the individuals in the unit should appear to be relatively similar. Allowing one religion to have a completely different uniform, as a beard and turban would be, would be detrimental to unit cohesion.

[ArmchairGeneral]

I bet those guys put their helmets on when they're liable to get shot, though.

[Blue]

I knew this would happen back when we where talking about this......http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/int...slim-topi.html

Just a matter of time. I'm sure Obama will overturn the policy lickety-split. No thought required.

welcome to the Army! feel free to do whatever you want, wear whatever you want, whenever you want to do it!

Whateva!!!

[RustyBattleship]

I knew this would happen back when we where talking about this......http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/int...slim-topi.html

Just a matter of time. I'm sure Obama will overturn the policy lickety-split. No thought required.

welcome to the Army! feel free to do whatever you want, wear whatever you want, whenever you want to do it!

Whateva!!!

Right! You can "rest" assured that the honor guard at your funeral will be in the proper uniform.

[Blue]

Right! You can "rest" assured that the honor guard at your funeral will be in the proper uniform.

No tellin what that may be when the time comes. Hopefully I got quite a few years left.:)

[pate]

If they were drafted I could understand. Other wise I have no sympathy.

Joining the military today is a choice. If you can't abandon your hippie long hair and beard, don't join. Easy math. Your religion prevents you from doing whatever the military asks? Hey:

NEWSFLASH; dateline (today, as in now, as in not when dinosaurs ruled the Aerth) YOU DON'T HAVE TO JOIN THE MILITARY.

Barack Obama today said that no person, foreign or domestic is any longer forced to join the military, no matter how much they love this country. After bowing and kissing the feet of the leaders of any country with citizens willing to live in the one he presides over the world leader said, "It's cool yo' we can all live together."

This reporter felt a shiver up his leg while the empyrean leader spoke. A moment was taken for 'personal time' in the effort for honest reporting while this reporter enjoyed the moment the previous sentence records...

No really, it doesn't mean that you get to be a member of the Imperial Guard just 'cuz you signed up (sorry Sikhs, I know, it hurts, but seriously? Do you have contacts with our Mennonite communities? We're seriously looking into that, Luddite)

Can I be more ridiculous? Could I really care less?

Oh, I guess I could, people have been taking number to argue with me for how long?

Sigh.

NEXT?! (It's time for me to clock out, this better be good...)

[Deltacamelately]

Out of genuine curiosity, Major, what do they plan to do if/when they have to use gas-masks in an NBC battle-field?

Cactus,

We have been watching generations of Sikhs serving the earstwhile British Indian Army and later the Indian Army, over the years, in varied battlefields under varied battle circumstances and never did their turban or beard pose any hindrance in warfighting. If you have kept a tab on the last few excercises testing the Army's new doctrine in NBC conditions, you would know that apart from the NBC protective gear given to the troop who don't keep a beard or wear a turban, there have been tens and hundreds of Sikh soldiers involved as well. Now how they would do this and what would the army brass write off is a matter of debate, however, the Indian Army till date doesn't considers the beard and turban to be a hindrance or an abberation in SOPM.

[Tronic]

Delta sir, you're right, I think even in an earlier thread regarding the same issue, I had posted images of Sikhs in the Indian army wearing NBC suites. Though I think the full NBC gear is still in development phase; I have no doubt the Indian army will come up with a solution, just as they did with the helmets.

I sense a market for turban shaped kevlar helmets.

Nothing to sense, its been there for a while mate. Indian army has already developed helmets for Sikhs a decade ago. ;)

[antimony]

Delta sir, you're right, I think even in an earlier thread regarding the same issue, I had posted images of Sikhs in the Indian army wearing NBC suites. Though I think the full NBC gear is still in development phase; I have no doubt the Indian army will come up with a solution, just as they did with the helmets.



Nothing to sense, its been there for a while mate. Indian army has already developed helmets for Sikhs a decade ago. ;)

Tronic,

You beat me to it

GN,

Unlike a PASGT Kevlar helmet, the protection of the Patka (aka Bullet Proof Patka or BPP) is achieved through a steel band, which is supposed to be able to withstand small arms fire.

It is so popular (or prevalent) that the even non-Sikh troopers wear this now.