conspiracy theories

[Herodotus]

The problem with conspiracy theories is that it takes more than one person to make a conspiracy, and the likelihood of any conspiracy staying secret lessens the wider it becomes. Take sniper's Iran-Contra scandal. For that to stay secret a whole host of actors that were in on it had to stay silent: Iranians, Lebanese Hezbollah, Saudis, the Sultan of Brunei, the Contras, the Texas oil men, McFarlane, Poindexter, North, North's secretary, Cayman Island bankers, NSC staff, Colin Powell, Weinberger, etc so on and so forth. Plus Reagan did sign the order to sell arms to Iran (which was legal) so there was clear documentary evidence there that would have come out after his presidency (FOIA?). From there it would not have been hard to track where the money went to.

The same holds true for Obama's birth certificate: too many variables to control. You have the Governor of Hawaii, the department of vital records in Hawaii, the Supreme Court justices (have to be in on it), etc, and so forth. And since "natural born" has been defined by the Courts and Congressional statue, even if (a huge if mind you) Obama was found to not have been born in Hawaii, nothing prevents Congress from retroactively making Obama a "natural born" citizen (son of a natural born citizen could be automatically made natural born). But even if that doesn't hold water, the only way to remove a sitting POTUS is through impeachment, and assuming that the Democratic Congress does impeach him all you are left with is a President Biden. Now seriously is Loose Cannon Joe any better?

Furthermore, his native born nationality can be supplemented with an acquired nationality without him losing his native born status as long as he decides when reaching the age of majority to take his nationality of birth. The logical consequence is that since Obama was born on US soil, he was a native/natural born citizen of the United States, even though his status was also governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948. Since Obama chose to not pursue his secondary nationality which he ‘acquired’ through his father and since no one can deny him his birthright, Obama had the right to determine when reaching the age of majority, if he wanted to continue his birthright US citizenship. In addition, even if Obama acquired Indonesian citizenship, in contradiction of Indonesian laws, his parents cannot deprive him of his birthright US citizenship and since Obama returned to the US well before reaching the age of majority, his never abandoned his birthright citizenship.

Native and Natural Born Citizenship Explored

Enough of this nonsense.

[Blue]

Still got a burr under your saddle over that birth certificate huh?:))

I got a ton of burrs under my saddle but not for the reason most people think. Most conspiracy theories are just nutty contrivances of totally unrelated events or people thinking they just saw something move in the dark. I know that. Personally, I really don't care if he was born here or not. He has been in the US long enough to be considered an American regardless IMO. He's the president now and whos to say we would be any better off with Biden. From a conservative POV we might be because Biden is an even more bumbling fool than Obama and probably would not be able to do half the damage Obama is.

My problem here is that Mr. Transparency is turning out to be more opaque as the days go by. As I said before, I have to produce a certified copy of my birth certificate before I can even get my friggin drivers license renewed. Why not the same for the president? If Mr. Transparent was so honest and open, why not call a press conference and hold up a certified copy(not something off the net) in front of the cameras and say "Here it is America, check it out and lets move on!" but he didn't do that and never will. But this is for the other thread.

A lot of the 'conspiracies' aren't tossed out without us being privy to the details.

Us who? A bunch of nearly anonymous people on an internet forum. Sure there a lot of people here that have been in the industry, but if I was still indoctrinated as a soldier I would be singing the same song as the rest of the choir.

The various 9/11 ones, who shot JFK, the Apollo shots etc we do have the details and have spent copious quantities of time putting them out there, only to have them ignored and the same false claims repeated again and again as though repetition makes them true.

OK. The only one of those three that have 1. Too many players to keep a secret. 2. Too much evidence to the contrary, where the Appollos. The other two just have too many unanswered questions for me. It is my duty as a citizen to question, is it not?

I now exactly what our govt and the men in it are capable of and only a fool would believe that it is some benevolent giant that never does a dirty deed. I have met quite a few of these CIA types and just as Ollie North stated before congress, even though he knew what he was doing was illegal, he thought it in the best interest of the United States and its people. This guy is sworn to that and lives it everyday. He did what he had to do to get the job done. Do you think that for a few failures there are no successes?

The birth certificate I discount because I've seen the images of his certificate posted, I've seen the analysis of that certificate image, I've read the so called photoshop experts who've claimed it's been interferred with and it all seems like a load of tosh to me.

If you're good with that, fine by me, but I choose to demand the same standards FOR my govt as they demand FROM me.

The simple truth is that the authorities who are tasked with ensuring he meets the requirements to hold the job of POTUS have said that he does, end of story.

And once again, who are those people? Govt officials.

Since I'm such a kind and generous dictator however, I'll go against my better judgement and run a democratic poll (don't think that this for a moment sets a precedent) in which members can vote as to whether this subject is worth the bandwidth.
As this is likely to attract one-trick ponies coming onto the site simply to skew the poll in just the way Ron Paul polls did, I'll make it so that we can see who has voted and I'll discount any votes by posters with less than 200 posts.
As, according to some of our liberal members, this forum is a positive hotbed of conservative subversion, you shouldn't be impeded by some Obama-supporting-tree-hugging slant innate to the board. Fair enough?:)

Absolutely! I don't like the nuts that freely throw accusations and assume they know the truth either. IMO, settling for flimsy explanation is as bad as thinking everyone is out to get you. Its a small space btwn complacency and paranoia and thats where I claim to be.

I just want the truth, whatever it may be, but I want it backed up by hard, tangible evidence, not what the status quo desires. I think the topic is worthy of bandwidth because govt deceit is a real thing and something that should be topic for somethings name starts with "world affairs". There is always going be some nuts that take it too far but sometimes you have to wade through a few of these to get to what you want.

I appreciate your open-mindedness on the matter. As you I wouldn't want it to devolve into a tin-hatfest, but there is legitimate discussion therein, IMO.

I have always found the truth to be stranger than the fiction.:)

Thanks Pari,



Eric

[Blue]

The problem with conspiracy theories is....

Your right except for FOIA. Just try to get 50 or 60 year old docs about UFO investigations. Better yet, try to get anything newer than that. You get a piece of paper with a big black block on it. There really is no real info to be gleaned. Like most govt things, it does the opposite of what the name suggests.

The same holds true for Obama's birth certificate: too many variables to control.

Naw, this would have been very simple to perpetrate.

even if (a huge if mind you) Obama was found to not have been born in Hawaii, nothing prevents Congress from retroactively making Obama a "natural born" citizen (son of a natural born citizen could be automatically made natural born). But even if that doesn't hold water, the only way to remove a sitting POTUS is through impeachment, and assuming that the Democratic Congress does impeach him all you are left with is a President Biden. Now seriously is Loose Cannon Joe any better?

A good point here and I agree 100%.

[gunnut]

New conspiracy:

Henry Gates gate (pun intended) is a media distraction planted by the Obama operatives to divert the public's attention from the deteriorating "health care reform" debate.

Think about it, the more media talks about the so called "health care reform" the worse Obama's numbers are. How do we stop this decline? Stop talking about it. How best to stop talking about it? Manufacture some "news" to get everyone talking about that instead of the "health care reform."

:))

[Blue]

New conspiracy:

Henry Gates gate (pun intended) is a media distraction planted by the Obama operatives to divert the public's attention from the deteriorating "health care reform" debate.

Think about it, the more media talks about the so called "health care reform" the worse Obama's numbers are. How do we stop this decline? Stop talking about it. How best to stop talking about it? Manufacture some "news" to get everyone talking about that instead of the "health care reform."

:))

I knew it!!! I just knew it!!!:)):)):))

[gunnut]

I knew it!!! I just knew it!!!:)):)):))

I'll try not to strain my shoulders patting myself on the back.

[dalem]

New conspiracy:

Henry Gates gate (pun intended) is a media distraction planted by the Obama operatives to divert the public's attention from the deteriorating "health care reform" debate.

Think about it, the more media talks about the so called "health care reform" the worse Obama's numbers are. How do we stop this decline? Stop talking about it. How best to stop talking about it? Manufacture some "news" to get everyone talking about that instead of the "health care reform."

:))

Ahh, but then why did Obama put his foot in it by weighing in so clumsily? Seriously, the guy looks and more like a bumbling associate professor every day.

-dale

[gunnut]

Ahh, but then why did Obama put his foot in it by weighing in so clumsily? Seriously, the guy looks and more like a bumbling associate professor every day.

-dale

That's part of the conspiracy. The controversy wouldn't have been so great had he NOT said the police "acted stupidly." We would have been right back on track to discuss the merits of Obamacare, which he cannot afford (literally) to have us do.

Now everyone is talking about the president's comment and how he sort of apologized but not, and how he invited "Skip" and Crowley to White House for a beer. Notice the media today is not talking about "health care reform" or at least not putting that on the headlines.

[dalem]

That's part of the conspiracy. The controversy wouldn't have been so great had he NOT said the police "acted stupidly." We would have been right back on track to discuss the merits of Obamacare, which he cannot afford (literally) to have us do.

Now everyone is talking about the president's comment and how he sort of apologized but not, and how he invited "Skip" and Crowley to White House for a beer. Notice the media today is not talking about "health care reform" or at least not putting that on the headlines.

They weren't putting it in the headlines anyway. The last thing they want to do is cast doubt upon the wisdom of their king.

-dale

[diodetriode]

The Ultimate Conspiracy

If the Jews/Illuminati/Freemasons/Bilderburg Group/Trilateral Commission/Royal Family/Alien Lizards/Rothschilds and the Toc-H actually DO control the World's media/ banks/ gold/stockmarkets/ industry/ drug trade/political institutions and sub-standard condom production---why is anyone allowed to talk about it?

Its all rubbish really, Cecil Rhodes, Baden Powell, Fredrick Russel Burnham and Teddy Roosevelt started the real World Domination Society. It's called the

[Steezy]

Conspiracy theories are stupid. Most of the really big ones would involve some sort of human being(s) that's almost God like, nobody takes into account that at the end of the day, we're all just humans. Even the people that run such fabled organisations like the "Illuminati" or the "US Government"

Especially the US Government, or Governments in general. I sure as hell don't believe there are such large groups of people out there capable of pulling off a good conspiracy. Certainly not governments, certainly not the US Gov!

People are too stupid for something like say......the moon landing or 9/11 to be an inside job. I know it sounds odd saying that, but when you think about it, actually doing it (for example, the moon landing) is a hell of alot easier than trying to pull off a conspiracy about it.

[Jimbo]

Its all rubbish really, Cecil Rhodes, Baden Powell, Fredrick Russel Burnham and Teddy Roosevelt started the real World Domination Society. It's called the

The blue ocean U.S. Navy?

[diodetriode]

The blue ocean U.S. Navy?

I was hoping an American would ask who Burnham was.

[Gun Grape]

If the Jews/Illuminati/Freemasons/Bilderburg Group/Trilateral Commission/Royal Family/Alien Lizards/Rothschilds and the Toc-H actually DO control the World's media/ banks/ gold/stockmarkets/ industry/ drug trade/political institutions and sub-standard condom production---why is anyone allowed to talk about it?

Its all rubbish really, Cecil Rhodes, Baden Powell, Fredrick Russel Burnham and Teddy Roosevelt started the real World Domination Society. It's called the

You can expect one of those black helos with UN troops to visit you soon. Its off to a FEMA concentration camp for you mister.:)):)):)):)):)):))

[TopHatter]

This is part of an article written by Stephen Johnson, author of: Silent Steel: The Mysterious Death of the Nuclear Attack Sub USS Scorpion.

I've never read his book so I can't comment on it, but he wrote this superb summary of conspiracy theorists:

Psychologists have long understood that people are inclined to believe dramatic events have dramatic triggers, even when mundane causes are to blame.

The lunatic conspiracy claims about a U.S. government plot to destroy the World Trade Center's twin towers on 9/11 are based upon delusional thinking and a wholesale perversion of simple scientific principles. This is the latest example of this type of collective self-delusion.

However, at the core of these theories is a deeply rooted desire to believe in false causes at the expense of logic because they serve an emotional need. The side effect of this is the necessity to then mount a quixotic campaign against what, in most cases, is actually the truth.

Its worthwhile to take note of the belief system that enables conspiratorial thinking:

A.) The belief the government is covering up the facts

B.) The belief that the facts can be hidden even though most so-called secret programs are eventually revealed

C.) The belief that the government somehow caused the disaster

D.) A willingness to believe unsubstantiated falsehoods that are often self-evidently incorrect is essential. This maintains the illusion of an emotionally satisfying crusade in which participants, driven by internal emotional needs, can see truths that are invisible to people of lesser talents.

Quite frankly, I think that sums up conspiracy theorists to a T.