The battle of Brexit!

[snapper]

I think the results are explainable by people moving Party. For example UKIP barely exists any longer and since the Tories have embraced UKIPs Brexit insanity I would imagine many former 'kippers' are now Conservative Party members; thus they would welcome Farage and do not really give a damn if the Conservative Party is destroyed. Meanwhile other former Tory Party members and voters who regard this as insanity have left 'party faithful' and migrated to the center of the LibDems which explains their revival in the European election vote. The Labour Party cannot make up it's mind and is a hard left, anti Semitic, hound those who do not follow the line of the Great Leader type outfit now, has also lost support (and at least one MP, Chuka Umana) to the LibDems.

So basically the Tories are more UKIP than they ever were before, the Labour Party is an ideologically almost Marxist Menshivik Party willing to carry out pogroms to usher in the heavenly realm of a socialist paradise but not much interested in Brexit which is of small concern compared to their grandiose delusions. The LibDems are benefiting by picking up the deserters from the two extremist 'main' Parties. They also are having a leadership election as Vince Cable, who served in the Cameron/Clegg coalition Government as Minister of Business and Trade, is elderly and stepping down. The favourite to win is a Lady called Jo Swinson who from what little I have seem or heard seems sensible enough.

[astralis]

a lot of this oh-so-sanguine Brexit talk is because the UK hasn't, well, Brexit'd.

i actually have no problem with that clown BoJo taking the helm at this point in time, because then he will get all the ... praise... that he deserves once the economic pain is felt.

every time i think US politics is dorked up, i just need to look at British politics to feel better. if there's a hard Brexit, we could very well see the first Lib Dem PM.

[snapper]

There were Liberal PMs before; Lloyd George (1916 -1922) being the last.

[tbm3fan]

a lot of this oh-so-sanguine Brexit talk is because the UK hasn't, well, Brexit'd.

i actually have no problem with that clown BoJo taking the helm at this point in time, because then he will get all the ... praise... that he deserves once the economic pain is felt.

every time i think US politics is dorked up, i just need to look at British politics to feel better. if there's a hard Brexit, we could very well see the first Lib Dem PM.

This guy!? Then God save the Queen or save someone at the very least...

[snapper]

A leader of the Leave.EU campaign suggested sending a “message of support” to the Russian ambassador after the then foreign secretary made a speech that was critical of Russia, documents seen by the Observer suggest.

The material also appears to show that Andy Wigmore, spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign and the business partner of Arron Banks, the biggest funder of Brexit, passed confidential legal documents to high-ranking officials at the Russian embassy and then denied it to parliament.

The documents related to George Cottrell, an aide to Nigel Farage who was with him on the campaign trail for Donald Trump in July 2016. Cottrell was arrested by the FBI and charged with 21 counts of money laundering, bribery and wire fraud.

Damian Collins, chair of the culture, media and sport select committee, said that Banks and Wigmore appeared to have misled parliament and “what we really need to know is why”. He added: “It makes you question whose side they are on.”

According to material seen by the Observer, Wigmore, who was Belize’s trade envoy to Britain at the time, forwarded an email to a Russian diplomat marked “Fw Cottrell docs – Eyes Only”. It is understood the email, dated 20 August 2016, showed six attachments of legal documents relating to Cottrell’s arrest by federal agents. It appears that Wigmore sent it to Sergey Fedichkin , a third secretary at the Russian embassy, saying: “Have fun with this.”

Collins asked Wigmore and Banks a series of questions about Cottrell’s arrest. He noted Wigmore was with Cottrell when federal agents seized him at Chicago airport on 26 July 2016, and that Farage was sent his charge sheet by the FBI. “Did you discuss George Cottrell’s arrest with the Russian embassy?” Collins asked. Wigmore replied: “It never came up. While at the time it probably seemed a big thing, there was so much else going on at the time it just was not an issue. It never came up.”

Collins told the Observer: “Wigmore kept trying to make the point that their contact with the Russian embassy was around social occasions, but we believe it went much further. On the surface, these documents didn’t hold any interest to the Russians, so why did they appear to pass them on? And why then deny it? Why did they mislead the committee about the true nature of their relationship? What are they trying to hide?”

The Observer has also seen what appears to be a discussion between the Leave.EU social media team and Wigmore and Banks in March 2016, three months before the referendum. On 11 March 2016 the Russian embassy put out a press release attacking Philip Hammond, the then foreign secretary, for suggesting that “the only country who would like us to leave the EU is Russia”.

Ian Lucas, Labour MP for Wrexham, who is also on the committee, said: “There has been a coordinated attempt to attack, bully and intimidate anyone asking questions about this, including MPs. But what the evidence is showing is an intimate business relationship with a hostile foreign government that was being built up in the period before the summer of 2016 that needs to be in the public domain.”

The Observer has seen a series of exchanges that suggest a picture of communications between the embassy and the Leave.EU campaign running up to the referendum which continued in the period after Farage became an active supporter and campaigner for Trump.

In October the Russian ambassador, Alexander Yakovenko, was identified by US special counsel Robert Mueller as a high-level intermediary between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. The documents about Cottrell’s arrest appear to have been handed over during a period in which Trump’s campaign manager, Paul Manafort, had his business dealings in Ukraine exposed and was replaced by Steve Bannon.

The New York Times published a story about a secret ledger of payments to Manafort – that were paid via the British Virgin Islands, Belize and the Seychelles – on 14 August 2016. On 19 August, the day that Bannon became campaign manager, Wigmore and Banks were invited to lunch at the embassy with Yakovenko. And on 20 August, documents suggest, Wigmore appears to have sent the papers about Cottrell’s arrest.

A few days later Farage, along with Wigmore and Banks, travelled to meet Trump in Mississippi, where he introduced the crowd to “Mr Brexit” and promised to deliver “Brexit plus”.

The indictment included claims about Cottrell’s expertise with the dark web and cryptocurrencies, and was public by the time Wigmore appears to have sent it to the embassy. It is also thought to include five other documents about the case.

The embassy said it “has not in any way intervened in the domestic UK political process, including the Brexit referendum.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...s-andy-wigmore

The great "patriots".

[snapper]

A leader of the Leave.EU campaign suggested sending a “message of support” to the Russian ambassador after the then foreign secretary made a speech that was critical of Russia, documents seen by the Observer suggest.

The material also appears to show that Andy Wigmore, spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign and the business partner of Arron Banks, the biggest funder of Brexit, passed confidential legal documents to high-ranking officials at the Russian embassy and then denied it to parliament.

The documents related to George Cottrell, an aide to Nigel Farage who was with him on the campaign trail for Donald Trump in July 2016. Cottrell was arrested by the FBI and charged with 21 counts of money laundering, bribery and wire fraud.

Damian Collins, chair of the culture, media and sport select committee, said that Banks and Wigmore appeared to have misled parliament and “what we really need to know is why”. He added: “It makes you question whose side they are on.”

According to material seen by the Observer, Wigmore, who was Belize’s trade envoy to Britain at the time, forwarded an email to a Russian diplomat marked “Fw Cottrell docs – Eyes Only”. It is understood the email, dated 20 August 2016, showed six attachments of legal documents relating to Cottrell’s arrest by federal agents. It appears that Wigmore sent it to Sergey Fedichkin , a third secretary at the Russian embassy, saying: “Have fun with this.”

Collins asked Wigmore and Banks a series of questions about Cottrell’s arrest. He noted Wigmore was with Cottrell when federal agents seized him at Chicago airport on 26 July 2016, and that Farage was sent his charge sheet by the FBI. “Did you discuss George Cottrell’s arrest with the Russian embassy?” Collins asked. Wigmore replied: “It never came up. While at the time it probably seemed a big thing, there was so much else going on at the time it just was not an issue. It never came up.”

Collins told the Observer: “Wigmore kept trying to make the point that their contact with the Russian embassy was around social occasions, but we believe it went much further. On the surface, these documents didn’t hold any interest to the Russians, so why did they appear to pass them on? And why then deny it? Why did they mislead the committee about the true nature of their relationship? What are they trying to hide?”

The Observer has also seen what appears to be a discussion between the Leave.EU social media team and Wigmore and Banks in March 2016, three months before the referendum. On 11 March 2016 the Russian embassy put out a press release attacking Philip Hammond, the then foreign secretary, for suggesting that “the only country who would like us to leave the EU is Russia”.

Ian Lucas, Labour MP for Wrexham, who is also on the committee, said: “There has been a coordinated attempt to attack, bully and intimidate anyone asking questions about this, including MPs. But what the evidence is showing is an intimate business relationship with a hostile foreign government that was being built up in the period before the summer of 2016 that needs to be in the public domain.”

The Observer has seen a series of exchanges that suggest a picture of communications between the embassy and the Leave.EU campaign running up to the referendum which continued in the period after Farage became an active supporter and campaigner for Trump.

In October the Russian ambassador, Alexander Yakovenko, was identified by US special counsel Robert Mueller as a high-level intermediary between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. The documents about Cottrell’s arrest appear to have been handed over during a period in which Trump’s campaign manager, Paul Manafort, had his business dealings in Ukraine exposed and was replaced by Steve Bannon.

The New York Times published a story about a secret ledger of payments to Manafort – that were paid via the British Virgin Islands, Belize and the Seychelles – on 14 August 2016. On 19 August, the day that Bannon became campaign manager, Wigmore and Banks were invited to lunch at the embassy with Yakovenko. And on 20 August, documents suggest, Wigmore appears to have sent the papers about Cottrell’s arrest.

A few days later Farage, along with Wigmore and Banks, travelled to meet Trump in Mississippi, where he introduced the crowd to “Mr Brexit” and promised to deliver “Brexit plus”.

The indictment included claims about Cottrell’s expertise with the dark web and cryptocurrencies, and was public by the time Wigmore appears to have sent it to the embassy. It is also thought to include five other documents about the case.

The embassy said it “has not in any way intervened in the domestic UK political process, including the Brexit referendum.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...s-andy-wigmore

The great "patriots".

[Double Edge]

I think the results are explainable by people moving Party. For example UKIP barely exists any longer and since the Tories have embraced UKIPs Brexit insanity I would imagine many former 'kippers' are now Conservative Party members; thus they would welcome Farage and do not really give a damn if the Conservative Party is destroyed. Meanwhile other former Tory Party members and voters who regard this as insanity have left 'party faithful' and migrated to the center of the LibDems which explains their revival in the European election vote. The Labour Party cannot make up it's mind and is a hard left, anti Semitic, hound those who do not follow the line of the Great Leader type outfit now, has also lost support (and at least one MP, Chuka Umana) to the LibDems.

So basically the Tories are more UKIP than they ever were before, the Labour Party is an ideologically almost Marxist Menshivik Party willing to carry out pogroms to usher in the heavenly realm of a socialist paradise but not much interested in Brexit which is of small concern compared to their grandiose delusions. The LibDems are benefiting by picking up the deserters from the two extremist 'main' Parties. They also are having a leadership election as Vince Cable, who served in the Cameron/Clegg coalition Government as Minister of Business and Trade, is elderly and stepping down. The favourite to win is a Lady called Jo Swinson who from what little I have seem or heard seems sensible enough.

If that poll has any meaning then it will presage the decimation of the British right. If the Liberals don't show up the UK takes a hard left turn after. This will really annoy the other half.

[Double Edge]

every time i think US politics is dorked up, i just need to look at British politics to feel better.

Why not send him to London, the Brits can have him. I see what you did there

Endorsed Borrrrriss, YESSS!!!

Before he landed already called the Mayor a loser : D

[Freyr]

Lol you talk in 'scare headlines'.

.. Thats rich

..

Both Davis and Raab were leavers. Now you say;

Yes and Davis resigned because he was being undermined by the civil service, who are largely remain. Raab quit because he couldn't support Theresa's deal. Theresa is Remain by the way

So pray tell how he will do that? Will he form a coalition Government with them perhaps? That may be difficult and have no point since they have no MPs in the House of Commons.

Basic common sense to involve Farage in the negotiation. Stewart has already proposed this.

[Freyr]

This guy!? Then God save the Queen or save someone at the very least...

He did a far better job as Mayor of London than the current loser

[snapper]

Welcome back Freyr (which is a middle name of my Daughter), I hope the cod are plentiful still up there.

.. Thats rich

Really?

.. Yes and Davis resigned because he was being undermined by the civil service, who are largely remain.

Any evidence of that? Or is it just an opinion/theory of yours? Which Civil Servants in particular do you accuse? Some of them I may have known and they must have been powerful beyond compare to force the resignation of a Minister of State.

Raab quit because he couldn't support Theresa's deal.

The deal HE negotiated.

Basic common sense to involve Farage in the negotiation. Stewart has already proposed this.

How would Farage answer to Parliament when he is not an MP. For such reasons Lords, who sit in the Higher House, are usually considered considered as ineligible as Ministers as most Government business and proposed laws originates from the Lower House of Commons.

Meanwhile the decision of who shall be the next PM has gone forth to the remaining 160,000 Tory Party members, all but two choices having been eliminated by successive vote reduction of the Parliamentary Party. As predicted the choice is between Boris and Jeremy Hunt, who in the last round of three beat Gove into third place by two votes after trailing Gove in third place in the previous round. There are apparently suspicions some of the Johnson supporters were told to vote tactically to take out Gove.

At home it does not seem quiet for Boris either who is apparently currently shacked up with a mistress with whom he seems to not entirely happy (or her him); https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

To be precise this is not a house Boris owns - she rents it I understand.

[Freyr]

Welcome back Freyr (which is a middle name of my Daughter), I hope the cod are plentiful still up there.

Yes there's absolutely no shortage, Although we mainly brought in Haddock and bream over the last week

Really?

Ja!

Any evidence of that? Or is it just an opinion/theory of yours? Which Civil Servants in particular do you accuse? Some of them I may have known and they must have been powerful beyond compare to force the resignation of a Minister of State.

I think Davis said it was Ollie Robbins

The deal HE negotiated.

No the one he was saddled with by the civil service. The one that Parliament kept rejecting

How would Farage answer to Parliament when he is not an MP. For such reasons Lords, who sit in the Higher House, are usually considered considered as ineligible as Ministers as most Government business and proposed laws originates from the Lower House of Commons.

Ask Rory Stewart he's far more qualified than you or I

Meanwhile the decision of who shall be the next PM has gone forth to the remaining 160,000 Tory Party members, all but two choices having been eliminated by successive vote reduction of the Parliamentary Party. As predicted the choice is between Boris and Jeremy Hunt, who in the last round of three beat Gove into third place by two votes after trailing Gove in third place in the previous round. There are apparently suspicions some of the Johnson supporters were told to vote tactically to take out Gove.

I remember when Major was elected, that also was a fix...after Heseltine had led initially

At home it does not seem quiet for Boris either who is apparently currently shacked up with a mistress with whom he seems to not entirely happy (or her him); https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

Left wing rag .....I do read the Guardian but they're not exactly unbiased. But really ...show me a couple that don't argue and fall out especially after drinking and I'll blow a raspberry fart. Men basically have two choices with women in a relationship your either a mouse like Theresa's hubby or you stand your ground which basically means argue ( or debate, if thats the preferred word ) alot. But hey my last wife shot at me with a glock ..so what do I know!!!

To be precise this is not a house Boris owns - she rents it I understand.

As is most of London

[snapper]

I am happy if you are getting Haddock and Cod still let alone Bream. May they keep multiplying!

I read the Ollie Davis reference as a joke at first. I think perhaps you meant Olly Robbins maybe? who Davies fired tried to fire? https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-robbins-fired You accuse him of undermining the 'will of the people'? in this instance?

However to then go on to blame some other 'Ollie Davis' for Raab's failure to get a deal that even he could vote I am sure for you signifies some deep and sinister 'deep state' but please do tell which Civil Servants on the UK side dictated to Mr Raab the deal he negotiated? Or is it a just 'deep state civil servants all the way down'? Is this also true in other countries or it is a UK problem alone do you think?

I do not disagree that Rory Stewart would make wiser choices and has more experience in international affairs than I or Boris Johnson.

Is the BBC also a 'left wing rag' for reporting the same story? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48721211 or is it just anyone that tells about facts that you do not like are 'fake news' and scurrilous 'left wing rags'? My friend I am no leftie by any means but I do have an addiction to facts and truth.

[Freyr]

I am happy if you are getting Haddock and Cod still let alone Bream. May they keep multiplying!

I read the Ollie Davis reference as a joke at first. I think perhaps you meant Olly Robbins maybe? who Davies fired tried to fire? https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-robbins-fired You accuse him of undermining the 'will of the people'? in this instance?

However to then go on to blame some other 'Ollie Davis' for Raab's failure to get a deal that even he could vote I am sure for you signifies some deep and sinister 'deep state' but please do tell which Civil Servants on the UK side dictated to Mr Raab the deal he negotiated? Or is it a just 'deep state civil servants all the way down'? Is this also true in other countries or it is a UK problem alone do you think?

I do not disagree that Rory Stewart would make wiser choices and has more experience in international affairs than I or Boris Johnson.

Is the BBC also a 'left wing rag' for reporting the same story? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48721211 or is it just anyone that tells about facts that you do not like are 'fake news' and scurrilous 'left wing rags'? My friend I am no leftie by any means but I do have an addiction to facts and truth.

Yes the man I stated was Ollie Robbins???

The BBC are more dangerous than left wing ...they're liberal, privileged and highly conceited hypocrites...

and it would seem that your source is an extreme left wing loon https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ow-girlfriend/

anymore unbiased sources you claim to know about and I'll be only too happy to read between the lines and discount.

[snapper]

Got sent this link:

Johnson says he will reduce the highest tax rates (an own goal to Corbyn perhaps) while Hunt says he will boost military spending by 15bn. We shall see if the UK Conservative Party has become as deprived of value as the US Republican Party. Some Tory MPs are said to be willing to bring down the Government in a House of Commons "no confidence" vote if a future PM Johnson leaves without a deal.