2016 Turkish Coup Attempt

[rj1]

Then don't believe it.

It's called the freedom of expression. Within the US, Gulen has every right to call Erdogan every freaking name in the book and then some. He also has the right to say what Erdogan is doing wrong. He also has the right to say what he will do instead.

What he does not have a right to is to murder or even conspire to commit murder. However, that Erdogan has to prove. Not that Gulen called him a freaking dumbass dickhead with dillusions of grandeur.

The US ain't backing Gulen. She's backing a founding principle of her heritage - that you don't have a right not to be called a dickhead.

And to add on, he's living in Pennsylvania, not next to the president on Pennsylvania Avenue

[Big K]

Then don't believe it.

It's called the freedom of expression. Within the US, Gulen has every right to call Erdogan every freaking name in the book and then some. He also has the right to say what Erdogan is doing wrong. He also has the right to say what he will do instead.

What he does not have a right to is to murder or even conspire to commit murder. However, that Erdogan has to prove. Not that Gulen called him a freaking dumbass dickhead with dillusions of grandeur.

The US ain't backing Gulen. She's backing a founding principle of her heritage - that you don't have a right not to be called a dickhead.

Sir,

you know me, i dont like erdogan as a politician, i dont support them in anyway.

but this is not about freedom of speech. not at all. gulen is not being targeted for his speeches.

at first sight i thought that this failed coup was a false one. but now, after seeing all the evidences, reading about all those military units that were stopped at the early stages of their mobilisations and etc. i see that this was a very serious coup attempt that was forced to be executed prematurely thanks to some brave souls.

gulen organised a coup and tried to overthrow an elected government. even if i didnt vote for akp, they are the elected rulers for now.

and there are tons of evidences plus confessions all around the Turkey about gulen and his sect for being behind this coup.

yes it was erdogan & his akp who believed/allowed gulen to infiltrate to every corner of the state,

yes it was erdogan & his akp who believed/allowed gulen to conspire against Kemalist officers in TAF,

yes it was erdogan & his akp who are, at least, guilty of "being deceived" in every corner by pkk, gulen and etc... (because as a head of state they dont have the right of "being deceived")

but these are to be answered before the judge.

gulen is NOT a regular cleric nor this case is not a regular case of "authoritarian erdogan vs innocent cleric"

And to add on, he's living in Pennsylvania, not next to the president on Pennsylvania Avenue

the post before this one i tried to reflect what average people would think about US if this thing will turn in to a threap.

there is already a strong culture of "accusing US for every thing wrong about the world" within certain social layers.

this case will provide a solid ground for those who are already pushing this anti-US feelings to penetrate moderate people.

i dont know that i can express myself sufficently on this matter.

[Officer of Engineers]

gulen organised a coup and tried to overthrow an elected government.

That's the evidence I'm looking for. Money trails. Communications. Meetings. Etc. If all Erdogan is pointing to are Gulen's speeches, well, he's got a disappointment coming.

[Big K]

That's the evidence I'm looking for. Money trails. Communications. Meetings. Etc. If all Erdogan is pointing to are Gulen's speeches, well, he's got a disappointment coming.

according to the media; the coupists wanted to make Chief Of General Staff Hulusi Akar to talk with gulen by saying that he was their leader... this is from General Akar's testimony.

[Officer of Engineers]

according to the media; the coupists wanted to make Chief Of General Staff Hulusi Akar to talk with gulen by saying that he was their leader... this is from General Akar's testimony.

That's thin. Very thin. In fact, this would be laughed out of any EU court, let alone a US court.

[tbm3fan]

Basing anything on confessions obtained is pushing it. No one knows by what means these confessions where obtained naming Gulen. It is convenient to have a bogey man to blame who is thousands of miles away. None of that would be sufficient in US Courts to get him deported. I'm sure the average Turk simply does not understand how the American justice system works. That he said, she said stuff doesn't cut it.

[Double Edge]

So many conflicting stories...

A friend said "how do you type 3000 names, let alone convictions in 12 hours?"

Exactly, so how to believe it.

one third of the military, one third of the teachers, one third of the judiciary.

Removed. A week later ?

How will they replace these people.

Then there is Erdogan has been greatly strengthened and the opposite view that he has been weakened, won't be around this time next year.

Was this secular vs islamist or a class struggle. I find the first prism being used a number of times. Erdogan resonates with the lower rungs that joined the middle class, the kind that the secular elites did not care much for. He kept winning elections because he delivered on services people wanted. He stays in power so long as he can continue to deliver. The oppostion is in disarray. The people don't care about ideology so long as it delivers.

what kemalists, the military has been weakened which isn't necessarily a bad thing, its only bad for the west that likes strong militaries but Turkey comes first. A presidential system is the last thing Turkey needs. When has a presidential system been good for other countries in the region. Parliaments encourage cooperation.

its amusing to note that AKP plays ball with the Gullenists only up to the point where the other party could not influence the people and become a rival. All went south after.

[Double Edge]

We rather not but if Turkey is to leave of her own choosing, then these are the scenarios that we're looking at ... and frankly none of them are of vital concern to the US.

If Turkey wanted to leave they could have done so earlier. So the conditions that keep Turkey in NATO still endure.

Cannot figure what Turkey gains by leaving NATO. The region is in flux now. The US isn't going to dump Turkey any time soon.

Those operational problems you mentioned are temporary.

[rj1]

the post before this one i tried to reflect what average people would think about US if this thing will turn in to a threap.

there is already a strong culture of "accusing US for every thing wrong about the world" within certain social layers.

this case will provide a solid ground for those who are already pushing this anti-US feelings to penetrate moderate people.

i dont know that i can express myself sufficently on this matter.

Come on dude. Blaming the U.S. for every single wrong in the world whether deserved or not is an international sport, especially in the two parts of the world Turkey is in between - Europe and the Middle East. If we do or do not handover Gulen to the Turks, people will blame us for anything wrong.

[Doktor]

That means people believe US is omnipotent in people's minds, not too bad

[667medic]

That means people believe US is omnipotent in people's minds, not too bad

Dude, it has always been the Joose or Amreeka or both....

[Redbluesky]

If US had really been behind the attempt, it'd be a more serious attempt. Plus, risking any attempt and angering turkey is not in US' interests, as turkey's geographical position means it's one of the most important NATO allies US has. US will try to keep Turkey within NATO, if possible.

[isim]

Redbluesky it was really serious attempt, timing caused failure. And US's interrests are neither turkish interrest nor NATO interrest. Turkey's role in NATO was slow down USSR for 2 days. Many NATO countries included USA reveal their self that they don't care about turkish territorial integrity or security. Or they are not countries of values but countries of their own agenda.

[Officer of Engineers]

Turkey's role in NATO was slow down USSR for 2 days.

Oh come on, you were expected to stop the Soviet thrust. The Soviets were going to take ground but they were not expected to take Ankara nor Istanbul.

[Double Edge]

Dude, it has always been the Joose or Amreeka or both....

Joos as well as other conspiracies are out. 'americans did it' is the leading contender. There were units operating from Incirlik under the american's noses and they did nothing. Quelle surprise.

If the morale of the Turkish military was low before the coup its even lower now. Erdogan knows not all soldiers behind the coup were gullenist so by leaving only half the story told there is a chance to reconcile with the military, hard core seculars and kemalists.

Blaming gullen & US is expedient from his party's pov. Tactical. Get the country onto one page.

Some delicate stepping required from the US for now. Let the Turks have their tantrum. In any case the US is caught up in their elections so this little spat isn't that important.

The Kurds get a reprieve, officers prosecuting that insurgency were removed. So hopefully no more bombings from them for now.