2014 Sydney hostage crisis

[tankie]

Australians waking up , ???

http://youtu.be/spijNzdGIM4

[Parihaka]

Well no.

Randa Abdel-Fattah, novelist
Adeeb Kamal Ad-Deen, poet
Fawad Ahmed, cricket player
Waleed Aly, radio and television presenter
Ahmed Fahour, CEO of Australia Post
Bachar Houli, football player
Ed Husic, Member of Parliament
Nazeem Hussain, comedian
John Ilhan, businessman
John Ibrahim, businessman
Usman Khawaja, cricket player
Rashid Mahazi, football player
Hazem El-Masri, rugby player
Anthony Mundine, boxer and former rugby player
Aamer Rahman, comedian
Osamah Sami, actor
Samina Yasmeen, academic
Irfan Yusuf, author

All these people are muslim Australians

[lemontree]

A bitter sweet end to the crisis. The death of hostages always takes away the joy of victory.
RIP to the victims.

[Bigfella]

Monash has provided some good info on this. A fair bit is unclear at this point and there is a lot more that we don't know about the specifics of what happened than what we can be sure of. I'll add a few observations.

At this point it is being reported that the siege ended when the store manager tried to grab for the gun. That was the point at which the police charged in. He was killed along with a female hostage. It is believed he was killed by the gunman, but the rest is unclear. This is a report from the NSW police on injuries:

NSW Police released an update on the six people injured:
A 75-year-old female who received a gunshot wound to the shoulder — stable condition.
A 52-year-old female who received a gunshot wound to the foot — stable condition.
A 43-year-old female with a gunshot wound to the leg — stable condition
A 39-year-old male who received a minor facial injury due to gunshot — treated at hospital and discharged.
A 35-year-old pregnant female assessed for health and welfare purposes — stable.
A 30-year-old pregnant female assessed for health and welfare purposes — stable.

The 39 year old male in question is a policeman. Outside the manager who died it is not yet certain who was shot by whom or exactly what happened.

The perpetrator was a nutter. Perhaps not clinically insane, but very much your 'lone angry nut' sort. I was going to suggest that he is the type of guy who gets a gun & kills a bunch of people for attention, but he had the chance to do that & didn't, so perhaps he is just the sort who wants attention for his real & imagined grievances. it is unclear just how he intended for this to end.

Apparently he was known in Sydney as the 'fake sheik' for his self-proclaimed status as a sheik (he was nothing of the sort). As mentioned, he was on bail on charges of accessory to the murder of his ex-wife by his girlfriend. She was also on bail - apparently the prosecution case wasn't great. He was also on bail for numerous charges of sexual assault stemming from his time as a 'spiritual healer over a decade ago. Apparently he claimed to be an expert in astrology, numerology, meditation and black magic. I suspect most Muslims would take a dim view of such claims. In fact, he was a very recent convert to Sunni Islam - reports range from a few weeks to a few days ago. I suspect he is the sort of guy Dae'sh would have fitted with a suicide vest or pointed at the nearest enemy strong point...after he recorded the obligatory recruitment video.

He recently lost an appeal to the High court over a conviction for sending hate mail to the families of dead soldiers. He was sentenced forced to do community service.

In short, a nasty, angry man with a mountain of grudges keen to have the attention of the nation before he ended up in jail. We've had our share of nutters in the past & no doubt we will in the future. This guy is a long way from the worst. What happened was terrible, but lets not get it out of perspective.

[Bigfella]

Well no.

Randa Abdel-Fattah, novelist
Adeeb Kamal Ad-Deen, poet
Fawad Ahmed, cricket player
Waleed Aly, radio and television presenter
Ahmed Fahour, CEO of Australia Post
Bachar Houli, football player
Ed Husic, Member of Parliament
Nazeem Hussain, comedian
John Ilhan, businessman
John Ibrahim, businessman
Usman Khawaja, cricket player
Rashid Mahazi, football player
Hazem El-Masri, rugby player
Anthony Mundine, boxer and former rugby player
Aamer Rahman, comedian
Osamah Sami, actor
Samina Yasmeen, academic
Irfan Yusuf, author

All these people are muslim Australians

Throw in the cameleers who opened up central Australia for settlement (of a sort) in the C19th.

You also missed out one of my best mates for over 25 years. We'll be going to the Boxing Day test this year with his two beautiful boys. They are never happier than when they are playing or watching Cricket & AFL. I'd rather have one of him than a million ignorant bigots.

[tankie]

No,one mentioned the good guys , we have them in the uk as well , point im making is the cancer is spreading .

[Batista]

Well no.

Randa Abdel-Fattah, novelist
Adeeb Kamal Ad-Deen, poet
Fawad Ahmed, cricket player
Waleed Aly, radio and television presenter
Ahmed Fahour, CEO of Australia Post
Bachar Houli, football player
Ed Husic, Member of Parliament
Nazeem Hussain, comedian
John Ilhan, businessman
John Ibrahim, businessman
Usman Khawaja, cricket player
Rashid Mahazi, football player
Hazem El-Masri, rugby player
Anthony Mundine, boxer and former rugby player
Aamer Rahman, comedian
Osamah Sami, actor
Samina Yasmeen, academic
Irfan Yusuf, author

All these people are muslim Australians

How about all of these "good innocent muslims" come and say ISIS type guys are not following what Koran really preach?

[Bigfella]

How about all of these "good innocent muslims" come and say ISIS type guys are not following what Koran really preach?

They do. ALL THE FUCKING TIME. They were saying it yesterday, They said it the day before that & for years before that and they will be saying it for decades more. The problem is that the sort of people who say 'why don't 'good Muslims' denounce this either don't listen or choose to forget.

How would you feel if every time some lunatic who looks like you, or shared your nationality or religion anywhere in the world did something fucked up, you were expected to apologize for it & explain that they don't represent you? Would it get old the second time? The tenth? The hundredth? How many days, weeks or years would it take? I'd be telling people to politely go fuck themselves in very short order. Then I'd stop being polite. Of course, that would simply prove how unreasonable 'people like me' are. I doubt you'd do much better and I know damned well some of your countrymen (or wannabe countrymen) on this forum go ballistic at the slightest criticism of their nation/ethnic group by outsiders.

If you talk the talk you'd best be able to walk the walk.

Yesterday police in Sydney were flooded with offers of help from the Muslim community. Imams called up & offered to risk their lives negotiating. others offered to exchange themselves for the people inside. Would you do the same? I wouldn't.

[drhuy]

They do. ALL THE FUCKING TIME. They were saying it yesterday, They said it the day before that & for years before that and they will be saying it for decades more. The problem is that the sort of people who say 'why don't 'good Muslims' denounce this either don't listen or choose to forget.

How would you feel if every time some lunatic who looks like you, or shared your nationality or religion anywhere in the world did something fucked up, you were expected to apologize for it & explain that they don't represent you? Would it get old the second time? The tenth? The hundredth? How many days, weeks or years would it take? I'd be telling people to politely go fuck themselves in very short order. Then I'd stop being polite. Of course, that would simply prove how unreasonable 'people like me' are. I doubt you'd do much better and I know damned well some of your countrymen (or wannabe countrymen) on this forum go ballistic at the slightest criticism of their nation/ethnic group by outsiders.

If you talk the talk you'd best be able to walk the walk.

Yesterday police in Sydney were flooded with offers of help from the Muslim community. Imams called up & offered to risk their lives negotiating. others offered to exchange themselves for the people inside. Would you do the same? I wouldn't.

How many of 'them' compared with the whole population of Muslim?

[astralis]

you know, defining the many by the actions of the few is the dictionary definition of "prejudice/bigotry"...

[tankie]

How about all of these "good innocent muslims" come and say ISIS type guys are not following what Koran really preach?

They did m8 and were very quick to condemn his actions .

[commander]

I do understand that not all of them are bad, but the new foot soldiers that they get aren't born yesterday nor did they jump from the sky, they are those within these good muslims that we know of. They allow themselves to be radicalized and every time something like this happens they obviously are sad because they are also targeted for the actions of some stupid among them. But what have they done to ensure their youths are not radicalized by these groups and recruited ?

[chanjyj]

now i must admit i'm no expert in tactical stuff but does it seem a bit odd that they kept throwing flashbangs inside while your men already rushed in, gun blazing? Its like trying blinding your own men.

To be fair, apparently they acted in a hurry because it seemed the kidnapper opened fire first.

It seems they threw something in at 1:16 and 1:24 after the initial entry. May not be flashes, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either way.

[Triple C]

I don't think it's within anyone's power to ensure all of his or her co-coreligionists stay on the straight and narrow. Decent Muslims can't control what rabid zealots preach on the internet, and can't make anybody go to mainstream mosques.

[astralis]

remember, the root of extremist islam is not so much religion but politics, as the power-hungry use base appeals to amass followers/power.

there were women wearing mini-skirts in AFGHANISTAN in the 1960s, palestine/iraq/pretty much the entire middle east was a sleepy backwater in the 1890s, and the house of saud was a bunch of camel-humping nobodies until the 1940s.