Is Sea Shepherd a terrorist organization?

[Tamara]

(I didn't think I'd get back here so soon.)

I always thought so. A left wing, rather a "nuisance" of one, but one never the less.

But now, I'm at conflict because I have a very dear young friend (and her family) who is talking about joining them, doing volunteer work for them. I've tried to dissuade her, talked about other organizations with the similar or same causes who aren't taking the law into their own hands, and I don't think it is working.

Is there some kind of official notification that says yes they are. Some kind of notification that says if you have friends who are this, you can forget about working for us? Like when Pvt. Benjamin's jerk of a boy toy was a member of the Communist Party?

[Bigfella]

No, they aren't. A activist group? yes.

[Tamara]

Well, there are activist groups and there are activist groups and like the Beetles song, Revolution, about when one starts talking about destruction, that takes it somewhere else.

Trying to cause collisions at sea and endangering lives, to me, is that somewhere else. To me, personally, they have stepped over the line and are now no longer just an activist group. It doesn't help seeing them as not terrorists, either, when they fly the skull and crossbones since piracy is terrorism.

But all that said, is there an official link such as FBI, UNODC, INTERPOL that says they are a terrorist organization or a terrorist support organization? Is there, alternately, a known procedure that makes association with this group, with people who belong to this group, a bad notion, like having friends in the KKK?

I'm at somewhat of an ethical heartbreak here, so I'd really like some helpful input.

[Parihaka]

Well, there are activist groups and there are activist groups and like the Beetles song, Revolution, about when one starts talking about destruction, that takes it somewhere else.

Trying to cause collisions at sea and endangering lives, to me, is that somewhere else. To me, personally, they have stepped over the line and are now no longer just an activist group. It doesn't help seeing them as not terrorists, either, when they fly the skull and crossbones since piracy is terrorism.

But all that said, is there an official link such as FBI, UNODC, INTERPOL that says they are a terrorist organization or a terrorist support organization? Is there, alternately, a known procedure that makes association with this group, with people who belong to this group, a bad notion, like having friends in the KKK?

I'm at somewhat of an ethical heartbreak here, so I'd really like some helpful input.

Firstly, my son uses black and white bath soap in the shape of the skull and crossbones and has several times paraded round the streets dressed as and acting as a pirate. I can assure you he's not a terrorist.

Secondly, as regards links, no. No government has designated Sea Shepherd a terrorist organisation, nor will they unless they reinvent the word to mean something altogether different from what it currently legally means. If they were to do so it means every citizen of that country who are involved in a protest that in any way turned violent for any reason would also have to be declared a terrorist.

2005 France as an example?

[Doktor]

(I didn't think I'd get back here so soon.)

I always thought so. A left wing, rather a "nuisance" of one, but one never the less.

But now, I'm at conflict because I have a very dear young friend (and her family) who is talking about joining them, doing volunteer work for them. I've tried to dissuade her, talked about other organizations with the similar or same causes who aren't taking the law into their own hands, and I don't think it is working.

Is there some kind of official notification that says yes they are. Some kind of notification that says if you have friends who are this, you can forget about working for us? Like when Pvt. Benjamin's jerk of a boy toy was a member of the Communist Party?

They are not considered terrorist organization. Their leader is being held by various law enforcement agencies around the world, but so far no charges were filed (that I am aware). Moreover, the org is registered and their assets are not frozen, nor any charges are filed against the org itself.

That said, if you are really concerned about your young friend, you can tell them your opinion but have to leave it up to them.
Later if the whole idea gets abandoned you never closed your door. Also, if they need help, they will know which door to knock.
Got to make that leap of trust.

[Bigfella]

Well, there are activist groups and there are activist groups and like the Beetles song, Revolution, about when one starts talking about destruction, that takes it somewhere else.

Trying to cause collisions at sea and endangering lives, to me, is that somewhere else. To me, personally, they have stepped over the line and are now no longer just an activist group. It doesn't help seeing them as not terrorists, either, when they fly the skull and crossbones since piracy is terrorism.

But all that said, is there an official link such as FBI, UNODC, INTERPOL that says they are a terrorist organization or a terrorist support organization? Is there, alternately, a known procedure that makes association with this group, with people who belong to this group, a bad notion, like having friends in the KKK?

I'm at somewhat of an ethical heartbreak here, so I'd really like some helpful input.

I don't see what the 'ethical heartbreak' is about. If the only way you can persuade your friend not to join is to convince her they are 'terrorists' then I seriously doubt your skills of argumentation & her intelligence.

Sea Shepherd take actions which may be dangerous & they are prepared to break the law. That does not make them terrorist. In fact, it doesn't even make them especially unusual among political groups campaigning on an issue. They are just more spectacular. In no conceivable universe are they 'terrorist'. If their actions as they stand are not enough to persuade your friend to join a different group then clearly she is set on her course. I imagine that she is just as capable of working out what a 'terrorist' is as we are. You exaggerating things isn't going to help your case or your credibility.

Put forth your case on the facts, not flashy labels. It stands or falls there.

[lemontree]

They are a marine conservation society, but they use unorthodox means to confront whaling vessels. They are angles compared to what we refer to as terrorists. Let your friend join them, let her travel her own journey, let her seek fullfilment in what she feels is right. As a friend, you can guide her for what you think is right, beyond that just stand by her side.

[Dreadnought]

IMO, They are doing the nobel thing by trying to save whales and expose illegal whaling. However, by some of the means they employ, they could possibly be viewed as terrorists but how can one side (japans whaling fleet) cry wolf while breaking treaties they signed at the very same time under the guise of scientific research.

I am on the side of the Shepards, but one must also remember that what happens on the open sea unobserved by a neutral party (say the USN) basically becomes an argument over he said she said.

If the Shepards really wanted to bring this to the attention of others, perhaps in the future they can employ drones with live feed. I know it sounds easy but continous live feed to say someone on the enviromentalist side of the House or Senate or even Congress may pay large dividends in time to come. If Obama can entangle himself in choice public matters then there is no reason that he could not wade into those waters via foreign policy.

They seem to be pretty resourcefull, they dont need US military style drones nor their cost. If they looked at past history of the USN they would find a manageable way to launce and recover them at a minimum cost. Even the USN battships used them (small ones) and recovered them with an apparatus similar to a football field goal and netting. They launched them with a very small catapult that anyone with some machining experience could construct. No need for launch pad nor recovery pad and they would cost alot less then the helo they operate. They should also find the ears of a retired naval engineer/s to help design them diffent tools (not harmful to humans) to help assist them. Im sure they could find a couple that arent too crazy about what Japans whaling fleet is up to.

If their financiers can donate enough cash for ships, then this would be a very low cost method of surveillance for them and may help rule out the he said she said of prior incidents.

Just my two cents worth, I do admire what they are doing and hope they continue it in the future.

IMO, Piracy (in moderation) can sometimes be a good thing.:whome:

[desertswo]

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, Green Peace in their Zodiac once tried to get between me and Canada Pier in Vancouver, BC as I was bringing the ship alongside. US Navy one, Green Peace zero. We fished them out and the local gendarmerie came and took them away, but not before we wished them a pleasant afternoon.

[Status Quo]

They are a marine conservation society, but they use unorthodox means to confront whaling vessels. They are angles compared to what we refer to as terrorists. Let your friend join them, let her travel her own journey, let her seek fullfilment in what she feels is right. As a friend, you can guide her for what you think is right, beyond that just stand by her side.

I completely disagree with this. If I had a real friend that is truly considering joining greenpeace, I would try my best to dissuade them.If to no avail I am not going to stand by a friend's side and support them. If that person joined they would be supporting an organization that spreads bullshit information regarding GE foods, with no legitimate scientific evidence. Just because they have an irrational fear of GE crops, does not mean that they should spread that fear to others that are truly in need of GE crops. By doing so, they are invariably harming others and their livelihood, which is absolutely ridiculous.

[Doktor]

SQ,

Are you saying, you have proofs GM food is OK?

Any independent sources to support this?

Besides it is up to people to believe or not believe what they hear from GP, sea-shepherd and alikes.

[FJV]

Terrorists usually target people that have nothing to do with "their problem".

The sea sheperd have a problem with whale hunting and targets whalers, which have a direct connection with their problem.

However in my opinion activists seems also not to be an accurate description, because if I'm not mistaken some of their actions are quite reckless and could get people hurt/killed unintentionally.

[Dreadnought]

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, Green Peace in their Zodiac once tried to get between me and Canada Pier in Vancouver, BC as I was bringing the ship alongside. US Navy one, Green Peace zero. We fished them out and the local gendarmerie came and took them away, but not before we wished them a pleasant afternoon.

Hi Sir, It was kinnda funny for to them attempt to prevent the New Jersey traveling up river to Astoria Oregon and under a bridge. As you mentioned prior USN 1 Green Peace Zip
Guess they didnt realize how tall the main mast was until it was infront of them.

[desertswo]

Hi Sir, It was kinnda funny for to them attempt to prevent the New Jersey traveling up river to Astoria Oregon and under a bridge. As you mentioned prior USN 1 Green Peace Zip
Guess they didnt realize how tall the main mast was until it was infront of them.

The really funny part was that initially I was going to back off, but I already had lines one and six over, and hauling them in and then tossing heaving lines and all that, while certainly doable, would have been a pain in the ass. The Canadian pilot was most emphatic; "Heave around Sir!" So we did, and the Zodiac and its three occupants were caught between the ship and the big camels they had to keep us off the pier. The more we heaved around on the capstans, the tighter it got until they turned turtle. Then I held off while they were fished out. Then I finished the job. No one was hurt, but no one, least of all the Canadians gave a shit about the idiots. Seems their view of them is that they are a bunch of American draft dodgers from the Vietnam era who never went home when Carter forgave them. Whether true or not, that was the story I got from more than one person. They consider them a pain in the ass.

[Status Quo]

SQ,

Are you saying, you have proofs GM food is OK?

Any independent sources to support this?

Besides it is up to people to believe or not believe what they hear from GP, sea-shepherd and alikes.

I'm not saying that all GE foods have been conclusively proven to not be harmful. There has been quite a few studies showing that GE crops are not any more or less detrimental to one than "regular crops." But, specifically I am arguing that "golden rice," (which green peace advocates against) is not harmful, and the rewards out weigh the costs by a long shot. So many people are harmed each and every year from vitamin A deficiency, when it can be easily reversed through golden rice, is absurd.

(When I get home, I'll post a few studies regarding the safety of GE crops.)

Sure, it is up to them to believe what ever they want to believe, but I'm not going to support them. For example, if I had a friend who thought AQ was a great organization, I would definitely not support their line of thought.

And for the people arguing that the Sea Shepherd (and the likes) have never been deemed as "terrorists," that is only partially correct. Japan has called them quite a few times "eco-terrorists."