Snowden departs HK

[zraver]

Millions of Americans, myself included consider the NSA's actions to be the real treason.

[Doktor]

That's not the issue. Why is he seeking safe heaven if he did everything right? Not believing US Courts?

[zraver]

That's not the issue. Why is he seeking safe heaven if he did everything right? Not believing US Courts?

Would you trust US Courts after watching the US government with the aid and abettance of said courts violate the constitution, assassinate its own citizens, engage in extraordinary rendition and hold people indefinitely without trial while torturing them?

[Doktor]

Yep, Venezuela or Ecuador have better records.

[zraver]

They are not going to throw him in a supermax for exposing their illegal activities.

[Doktor]

Nice trust there in your own judicial system.

[zraver]

Nice trust there in your own judicial system.

Well the FISA courts are apparently OK with a part of the executive branch collecting the records on everyone else- private citizens, government officials, legislators, jurist, state and federal... whats not to trust?

[citanon]

Millions of Americans, myself included consider the NSA's actions to be the real treason.

Which part violated the constitution?

[zraver]

Which part violated the constitution?

Violation of the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against general warrants...

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[DOR]

When the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches all agree on something, there is a high likelihood that it is constitutionally acceptable.

I'm a bit perplexed by the assumptions being tossed around here that the surveillance has had no positive results, or that the acts of terrorism (etc) that it prevented would have been less damaging than the actions to prevent such acts.

Hong Kong -- a member of Interpol in its own right -- has done itself no favors by failing to allow the due process of extradition to be carried out. And, considering how many triad gangsters have been extradited from the US (and elsewhere) to Hong Kong to stand trial, this is not a smart decision.

Still, I doubt CY Leung made the decision on his own, let alone with the advice of Rimsky Yuen (Justice Secretary) or Lai Tung-kwok (Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Secretary).

[zraver]

When the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches all agree on something, there is a high likelihood that it is constitutionally acceptable.

Only select members of the legislative and even they have complained about the scope of the data mining. A part of the judiciary that is not subject to appeal or oversight... A common language statement in the constitution that there shall be NO general warrants...

I'm a bit perplexed by the assumptions being tossed around here that the surveillance has had no positive results, or that the acts of terrorism (etc) that it prevented would have been less damaging than the actions to prevent such acts.

What plots, we have only the word of those who have been shown repeatedly to lie, who are under a (they say) legal duty not to reveal details... We know the plots they missed- Boston, Ft Hood, Detroit... We know the plots they themselves set up and entrapped suspects into- Portland...

Hong Kong -- a member of Interpol in its own right -- has done itself no favors by failing to allow the due process of extradition to be carried out. And, considering how many triad gangsters have been extradited from the US (and elsewhere) to Hong Kong to stand trial, this is not a smart decision.

Still, I doubt CY Leung made the decision on his own, let alone with the advice of Rimsky Yuen (Justice Secretary) or Lai Tung-kwok (Constitutional and Mainland Affairs Secretary).

As I understand it, the extradition treaty with HK does not include those charged with political crimes.

[tbm3fan]

Hope he enjoys his life in Ecuador. Seems history is replete with people who have done exactly as Snowden is doing now. He'll have a little celebrity status in his new home but after that, then what. I guess he could try to support himself by writing a book.

[Enzo Ferrari]

This "traitor" once said these:

"'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things [surveillance on its citizens]… I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded"

"NSA employees must declare their foreign travel 30 days in advance and are monitored. There was a distinct possibility I would be interdicted en route, so I had to travel with no advance booking to a country with the cultural and legal framework to allow me to work without being immediately detained. Hong Kong provided that. Iceland could be pushed harder, quicker, before the public could have a chance to make their feelings known, and I would not put that past the current US administration."

"I believed the tradition of rule of law and searching for freedom of speech in Hong Kong.(I cannot find an exact wording, this is similar meaning)"

"I believed that my own life related to Hong Kong people.(I cannot find an exact wording, this is similar meaning)"

IMHO, he is a hypocrite!

[snapper]

I have taken the Official Secrets Act and it's not a problem for me; I've seen nothing contrary to British or international law occur in my time. Suppose I had? Would I squeak? Depends I suppose on whether the law is being broken in regard to your own people - you nation - or if 'short cuts' were occasionally made regarding the laws of other nations. On the latter case I'd regard it as regrettable but part of someone's job and probably needed. If I find the laws of my own land broken at the expense of the people of my own land and do not speak I am likely to end up in a Nuremberg type court some day with the lame excuse that I was "just following orders"; orders I knew to be contrary to the law. The Manning case in my view is prosecutable - he leaked information that may have put others at risk. This instance is not criminal - it is those whom he has exposed who are behaving illegally.

[payeng]

Reminds me of the 'Prision Break' series, Snowden being a National Fugitive just for reasons pitiable to leave his motherland.