French National Assembly Criminalize Denying Armenian Genocide

[Doktor]

I think French had just about enough of Turkish overblown nationalism and chess pumping shauvinism.....btw, ethnic cleansing and Genocide are not the same.

Ararat,

You are right genocide as a term was invented over this sad moment of history. But you can't deny it was an ethnic-cleansing, too.

I don't see a point politicians to make it criminal denying some thing in the past happened. 1. They are not historians and 2. People can be ignorant or uneducated.

Noone was sent to jail not knowing the Newton's laws, but inertia kills people every day and gravity keeps people and other objects on the ground.

Instead of looking for other countries to make stupid resolutions about your mutual past, your two countries should engage to make the present better by resolving any issues you have.

[snapper]

I merely question whether the Frog Parliament is employed to pontificate about the history of other nations and not the current affairs and near future of their own country.

[TTL]

There are not, thank God, hundreds of genocides, or even dozens. There are three. Four, if we add the Cambodians to the Armenians, the Jews, and the Rwandans.

This guy truly is a jewel.

Unrelatedly as a Turkish citizen I honestly don't know if my grandfather's grandfather participated in a genocide or not (There are many conflicting sources on this issue and how can one be so sure what happened so long ago in a such isolated and chaotic area I don't get) nevertheless I am ready to apologise ex gratia just so we can finally put this issue to rest.

Yet there is the issue of a sizeable part of armenians wanting to resurrect Treaty of Sevres. We buried Sevres and paid its price fair and square before the entire world, maybe Armenians should start to act reasonably instead of making spoiled demands and they can be suprised of the amount of support they can find in Turkey itself.

Just my own opinion.

[Bigfella]

I think French had just about enough of Turkish overblown nationalism and chess pumping shauvinism.....btw, ethnic cleansing and Genocide are not the same.

I think more Armenians vote in French elections than Turks

famous French writer Bernard-Henri Lévy defending the criminalization of Armenian genocide denial:

So, a French intellectual believes that people who disagree with him should go to jail. Given the size of Mr Levy's ego I doubt he has been struck by the profound hypocricy of supporting the criminalization of opinion while he himself relies on the ability to freely express opinion to make a living. In the end it is really all about him.

[Big K]

i agree with TTL,

mostly if the word "genocide" would be changed into something else like "massacre, murder" or anything beside "genocide" the support would surprise everyone.

[Doktor]

Etymology of genocide (wiki)

The term "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin (1900–1959), a Polish-Jewish legal scholar, in 1944, firstly from the Greek root génos (γένος) (birth, race, stock, kind); secondly from Latin -cidium (cutting, killing) via French -cide.[12][13]

In 1933 Lemkin wrote a proposal on the "crime of barbarity" to be presented to the Legal Council of the League of Nations in Madrid. This was his first formal attempt at creating a law against what he would later call genocide. The concept originated in his youth when he first heard of the Ottoman government's mass killings (Armenian Genocide) of its Christian population during the First World War[14][15] and the renewed round of anti-Assyrian persecution in Iraq.[16] His proposal failed, and his work incurred the disapproval of the Polish government, which was at the time pursuing a policy of conciliation with Nazi Germany.

[Big K]

Etymology of genocide (wiki)

The term "genocide" was coined by Raphael Lemkin (1900–1959), a Polish-Jewish legal scholar, in 1944, firstly from the Greek root génos (γένος) (birth, race, stock, kind); secondly from Latin -cidium (cutting, killing) via French -cide.[12][13]

In 1933 Lemkin wrote a proposal on the "crime of barbarity" to be presented to the Legal Council of the League of Nations in Madrid. This was his first formal attempt at creating a law against what he would later call genocide. The concept originated in his youth when he first heard of the Ottoman government's mass killings (Armenian Genocide) of its Christian population during the First World War[14][15] and the renewed round of anti-Assyrian persecution in Iraq.[16] His proposal failed, and his work incurred the disapproval of the Polish government, which was at the time pursuing a policy of conciliation with Nazi Germany.

thanks Doc,

but i knew it and i am still at the same point.

[Doktor]

The thing is the Ottoman rulers got pissed and did what they did, was it unacceptable at the time?

[Hitman817]

I don't think there was genocide on the Armenians and nothing the French or any ohter christian Parliament does will ever change my opinion on this.

And the Armenians are fools if they think they will gain anything by using such tactics. They made their bed, when they decided to fight with the Russians and the French against the OR, now they shoul lie in it. They will never see money or land from us, never.

[snapper]

Realy?

[Doktor]

On which territory is Armenia situated?

[Pedicabby]

I don't think there was genocide on the Armenians

How Turkish of you.

[Doktor]

Let's see if the same parliaments will adopt same laws over US Indians or over Soviet expulsion of the whole of the native Chechen population to Siberia.

[Big K]

Let's see if the same parliaments will adopt same laws over US Indians or over Soviet expulsion of the whole of the native Chechen population to Siberia.

i told the same at first place

[Ararat]

Ararat,

You are right genocide as a term was invented over this sad moment of history. But you can't deny it was an ethnic-cleansing, too.

Sure, one can't deny that the Jewish holocaust was ethnic cleansing as well.

I don't see a point politicians to make it criminal denying some thing in the past happened. 1. They are not historians and 2. People can be ignorant or uneducated.

Truth is not divisible by two. Is there another side about Hitler who gassed Jews, about Stalin who starved Ukrainians, or about Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge who massacred Cambodians? Of course not. Genocide is so blatant an evil that it has no other side to the story.

your two countries should engage to make the present better by resolving any issues you have.

That is the current position of Armenia, however Turkey has closed its borders, blockades Armenia, and spends millions on anti-Armenian propaganda inside and the denial convoys outside.

btw, why go with Wiki when you can hear it from the man himself.

Raphael Lemkin

Bigfella, The hypocracy is that if I were to deny the Jewish genocide here or on a same type of a forum......I would be banned in an heartbeat.

Vive La France.