Japan vows to invest $35 billion over 5 years in India

[Blademaster]

China is suppressing her Muslims. India relies on her Muslim vote banks. Guess which Pakistani Muslims would turn their hate on once they stop hating India.

Pakistan suppresses her own Muslims and still hates India because India is seen as the anathema to Islamic nationalism. You said that Pakistan wants to revive the glory days of the Mughal Empire. Well unless it conquers India, Pakistan can never revive the Mughal Empire and to make peace with India it means that Pakistan has to give up any ideas or hopes of resurrecting the Mughal Empire and will face internal problems with recalcitrant Muslims and will behave in the same way like Egypt did with toward Muslim Brotherhood. Do you think Pakistan would give two cents about muslims in Xinjiang?

[Officer of Engineers]

You need to reread the map of egress into Pakistan from Afghanistan. Most of the egress come through the Khyber pass at Peshawar and Khojak Pass near Quetta. Those passes serve naturally as chokepoints. Sure Soviets can overwhelm those passes but it would not be done in days but weeks and that gives sufficient time for IA to overcome and breach those canals especially when most of Pakistan's focus will be divert to meet the oncoming threat of Soviet forces. Besides those canals were not built till the 80s. So Indian forces would reach Karachi and Gwadar before any Soviet forces can arrive.

Same outcome. The Chinese will still need to intervene to safeguard Tibet. Do recall that China attack Vietnam when Vietnam was till occupied with Cambodia.

[Officer of Engineers]

Do you think Pakistan would give two cents about muslims in Xinjiang?

I didn't think they gave two shits about Afghan Muslims but that didn't stop them from annoying the Soviets half to hell.

The only reason why they like China is because they hate India. It does not mean they love China one single bit. The TTP tells you just how much the tribal belt likes China - zilch.

[Blademaster]

Same outcome. The Chinese will still need to intervene to safeguard Tibet. Do recall that China attack Vietnam when Vietnam was till occupied with Cambodia.

And China would face the same problem. They would not be able to march to Delhi but get stonewalled with their forces stretched out. An insurgency would break out in Tibet and China could lose Tibet. Best thing for China is to leave India alone to keep Tibet.

[Blademaster]

I didn't think they gave two shits about Afghan Muslims but that didn't stop them from annoying the Soviets half to hell.

The only reason why they like China is because they hate India. It does not mean they love China one single bit. The TTP tells you just how much the tribal belt likes China - zilch.

And TTP is not running Pakistan. They do not have the numbers or necessary mass or strength to overtake Pakistan. Besides if they do take over Pakistan, they are never going to agree to peace with India. So my assertions still stand.

[Officer of Engineers]

Hitesh, we are expecting China to lose. Hense why we need to nuke her enemies.

[Officer of Engineers]

And TTP is not running Pakistan. They do not have the numbers or necessary mass or strength to overtake Pakistan. Besides if they do take over Pakistan, they are never going to agree to peace with India. So my assertions still stand.

Only half. It only means that they will take on both China and India.

[Blademaster]

Hitesh, we are expecting China to lose. Hense why we need to nuke her enemies.

And that would make you MacArthur. MacArthur wanted to nuke China because he was expecting to lose Korea and he got overruled by Truman.

[Blademaster]

Only half. It only means that they will take on both China and India.

Then it means that China would make peace with India before Pakistan could make peace with India.

[Officer of Engineers]

Yes it does. You are ignoring the point about these scenarios. It is wargaming to figure out our options. We are identifying the decision points all along these scenarios ... and you will notice that we always assume the worst case scenario. It may very well be the Pakistani Army is capable of repelling the Soviets (not likely but possible). It is also very likely that Dehli can convince China that whatever the Soviets do, there absolutely no threat to Tibet and some token actions (cave in the invasion routes to Tibet). It may also be that we can see you, China, the Pakistanis, and the Soviets can't handle this whole mess and thus, no 45 divsions are moving east.

Antimony asked about a scenario. I gave it to him. Does it mean it would have come true? Of course not ... because it did not. Moscow did not invade Pakistan.

It was a worst case scenario planning and that was the strategic thinkers' job.

[Officer of Engineers]

Then it means that China would make peace with India before Pakistan could make peace with India.

No shit Sherlock. Who has the bigger trade with China? India or Pakistan?

[Blademaster]

No shit Sherlock. Who has the bigger trade with China? India or Pakistan?

Your assertion was that once Pakistan makes peace with India, it would turn on China. I rebutted your assertion saying that it was impossible because it means that Pakistan would have to change before it could make peace with India and if Pakistan could make peace with India and live with it, it can live with whatever China is doing and you brought up the example of TTP and I said that only proves my point further and went on to say that China would make peace with India before Pakistan could make peace with India.

So, no shit Sherlock Holmes it would be a cold day in hell before Pakistan makes peace with India. China making peace with India is far more realistic prospect than the idea of Pakistan making peace with India.

[Officer of Engineers]

So, no shit Sherlock Holmes it would be a cold day in hell before Pakistan makes peace with India. China making peace with India is far more realistic prospect than the idea of Pakistan making peace with India.

I really think you're missing my point. Pakistan and China are natural enemies. They are fundamentally ideologically opposed. The Chinese in all their history has never been religiously dominated. Even the Taiping Rebellion, as much as the idiot founder/father/leader thought otherwise, it was never to answer God's demand to create God's kingdom in China.

China's Mongol/Turkic conquerors were never hell bent to establish Islam in China (mainly because they were not Muslims at the time).

The Pakistanis want to re-conquer India, no doubt but that does not mean they love what the Chinese represent. They just hate India more than they hate the CCP infidels.

[Blademaster]

I really think you're missing my point. Pakistan and China are natural enemies. They are fundamentally ideologically opposed. The Chinese in all their history has never been religiously dominated. Even the Taiping Rebellion, as much as the idiot founder/father/leader thought otherwise, it was never to answer God's demand to create God's kingdom in China.

China's Mongol/Turkic conquerors were never hell bent to establish Islam in China (mainly because they were not Muslims at the time).

The Pakistanis want to re-conquer India, no doubt but that does not mean they love what the Chinese represent. They just hate India more than they hate the CCP infidels.

And you are totally missing my point too. I totally understand that Pakistan and China are natural enemies but guess what? they are allies because of one common enemy, India. You even admit that Pakistan hates India more than it hates China. However for your assertion to stand that once Pakistan makes peace with India, Pakistan will go to war with China, well in order for that to happen, Pakistan has to give up its hatred of India and that requires a total abandonment of the Islamic nationalism idealogy, the very foundation of its hatred and raison d'entre against India. That foundation also serves as the foundation of why Pakistan and China are natural enemies. If Pakistan gives up this foundation in order to have peace with India, it means that it no longer has a foundation which would make Pakistan and China natural enemies.

[Officer of Engineers]

And you are totally missing my point too. I totally understand that Pakistan and China are natural enemies but guess what? they are allies because of one common enemy, India. You even admit that Pakistan hates India more than it hates China. However for your assertion to stand that once Pakistan makes peace with India, Pakistan will go to war with China, well in order for that to happen, Pakistan has to give up its hatred of India and that requires a total abandonment of the Islamic nationalism idealogy, the very foundation of its hatred and raison d'entre against India. That foundation also serves as the foundation of why Pakistan and China are natural enemies. If Pakistan gives up this foundation in order to have peace with India, it means that it no longer has a foundation which would make Pakistan and China natural enemies.

Very good analysis of my failure.

However, I have to ask. India's Muslims are having no problems in India. Why that peace cannot be extended to Pakistan? Purely an intellectual exercise.