Tweet
Originally posted by troung
View Post
-
Wishing that stupid people who are harmful to others are not around is not being a horrible human being, that is doing the world a massive favor. I am very little time for Coronajihadists of any persuasion. Please be a dear and follow Trump's advice.Last edited by antimony; 25 Apr 20,, 06:30."Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus -
I don't know how you create a position where New York gets absolved of blame and Trump receives the lion's share. New York has one of the, if not the, worst outbreaks on the planet, and a lot of it ties back to De Blasio and Cuomo. And maybe they get got unlucky and you want to give him a pass, but that means Trump gets the same pass, and it also means you don't get to exonerate California or Washington (beyond maybe the Bay Area) because it's entirely possible they got as lucky as NYC got unlucky. Which actually is more likely than "California got it right!" because California has different infection vectors due to different international travel and immigration patterns.Originally posted by astralis View Post
Similarly, it's entirely possible that Germany got lucky. You don't really know what you don't know until the post-mortem comes out, and the actual "post" is important there. There's a lot we know now that we didn't know a month ago.
The most meaningful decisions involve mandatory stay-at-home orders. The governors control those. If you want Trump, or any President, to override a governor's decision, it involves marching the 82nd airborne in, arresting the governor, and busting down churches to round up people at Easter mass. Any President who does that is dumber than Trump.
FWIW, Singapore is the model of competent governance, and if they can't stop a second wave, no one can. And it's all well and good to mock the people who want to open back up, but the Western World is currently going through the most severe and rapid economic contraction in history. Maintaining a permanent lockdown or even long-term lockdown is not feasible, Test&Trace will not work without major lifestyle changes and may not work long-term even then (Sorry, guys, a couple months is not a guarantee of long-term success), acquired immunity from Coronavirus may not even exist beyond a few months, and a vaccine may very well be impossible.
You should definitely prepare yourself psychologically for a near future where COVID-19 is not controllably and becomes an endemic, recurring, possibly fatal disease that can strike you at any time and reduces your life expectancy by 20-30 years. You also should also prepare yourself for a wave of fiscal austerity as governments reckon with their giant debt loads over the next decade."The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von BismarckComment
-
"lion's share of the blame" isn't really how I assess things.I don't know how you create a position where New York gets absolved of blame and Trump receives the lion's share. New York has one of the, if not the, worst outbreaks on the planet, and a lot of it ties back to De Blasio and Cuomo. And maybe they get got unlucky and you want to give him a pass, but that means Trump gets the same pass, and it also means you don't get to exonerate California or Washington (beyond maybe the Bay Area) because it's entirely possible they got as lucky as NYC got unlucky. Which actually is more likely than "California got it right!" because California has different infection vectors due to different international travel and immigration patterns.
as you say, each person has differing powers given their situation-- and some situations simply cannot be avoided.
given their respective powers and situation:
De Blasio screwed it up for NYC.
Cuomo has done a good job for NY.
Trump screwed it up for the US (or federal response, if you want to be more accurate).
none of this equates to "De Blasio killed thousands of New Yorkers", or "Trump killed tens of thousands of Americans." De Blasio's actions at the beginning of the pandemic worsened the situation. to what extent, unknowable. New York was gonna suck anyway just because of population densities. similarly, Trump's faulty leadership worsened the situation-- and to what extent, unknowable.
it's true that governors drive most of the lockdown procedures -- but other things, like being able to provide medical supply in masse, that is what the federal government was built to do. instead, we have a competitive state free-for-all. ineffective. similarly, Trump -could- use the bully pulpit to shame recalcitrant governors to lockdown. instead, he's been all over the place on the subject; one day calling for the economy to re-open by Easter, another day to shame Brian Kemp a few days after praising him.
the US response, in total, has been middling among Western nations: precisely because the state-by-state response drives towards the median. my guess is that had we had competent leadership at the federal level, we'd be upper-middling.
ie we wouldn't be Korea or Taiwan (and those places have geographical advantages anyway), but closer to that of Germany rather than Italy.
i expect COVID accelerate in deadliness over the next two months in the Third World. for the US, depending on how things go with the particularly dumb state governors, I hope to see a few months' gap of -relative- "normality" prior to another surge in the fall.You should definitely prepare yourself psychologically for a near future where COVID-19 is not controllably and becomes an endemic, recurring, possibly fatal disease that can strike you at any time and reduces your life expectancy by 20-30 years. Y
if we're -lucky-, we'll have a vaccine by early next year; if we're not, then by 2021; and yes, if we're -really- unlucky, and there's no vaccine, then this will plow through the world populace until everyone gets it. which will be truly gruesome because as you say, no one can lockdown forever.
nah. this whole thing has -proven-, yet again, that we're in a highly deflationary overall world economic situation. in fact, the longer the vaccine takes or especially if there's no vaccine, the worse the deflationary effects are.You also should also prepare yourself for a wave of fiscal austerity as governments reckon with their giant debt loads over the next decade.
and we were -already- deflationary to begin with.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
-
The President Is Unwell
The only thing worse than a pandemic is having Donald Trump as your president during a pandemic. Tens of thousands of Americans have died. Tens of millions have lost their jobs. President Trump, meanwhile, has indulged in self-pity, touted an unproven drug, bragged about the TV ratings of his press briefings, and expressed interest in the idea of people injecting disinfectants into their lungs — or, as we used to call it, committing suicide.
Every day, we have to worry about the president's mental health when he should be worrying about our physical health.
After saying he wanted "the governors to be running things," Trump said his authority was "total." "The president of the United States calls the shots," he explained. Three days later, he told governors, "You're going to call your own shots."
To the extent that Trump has a plan, it is to take credit for everything the governors do well and to blame them for everything he does poorly. On Wednesday, he faulted Georgia's Republican governor for reopening businesses too soon. This was five days after Trump called for several states to be "liberated" from the guidelines he himself had issued the day before. Governors can't do anything right. If they reopen businesses, Trump will blame them for deaths. If they keep businesses closed, he will blame them for a bad economy as well as deaths. By doing nothing, Trump hopes to be blamed for nothing.
Too late. He failed to prepare for the pandemic even though — and also because — there was a book outlining how to prepare for a pandemic. Trump doesn't read much, know much, or learn much. He feels much and talks much.
"I'm not a doctor," Trump said, "but I'm a person with common sense."
Apparently, it's common sense to call hydroxychloroquine "a very special thing" and to say that "a lot of people are saying" that patients should take the unproven drug. According to a White House official, these people include "so many people in New York — friends, Wall Street guys, real estate guys."
When not heeding the medical advice of real estate guys, Trump relies on his own epidemiological clairvoyance. He told Fox News' Sean Hannity he had a "hunch" about the coronavirus death rate. "Personally, I would say the number is way under 1 percent," he said, adding, "I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators." As Joel Stein said, "Sometimes you just know in your gut how many ventilators each hospital will need in a pandemic."
Trump's "war against the invisible enemy" is a war against the scientific method. We cannot attack the coronavirus. We can only hide from it and defend ourselves with gloves, masks, and hand sanitizer. This takes time. The only way to win is to wait.
Trump doesn't want to wait. Just six days after he called himself "a wartime president," he said the war had "been going for a while" and that it should end by Easter (19 days later). Why Easter? Because, he said, "Easter is a very special day ... for me." Trump makes everything about him, even the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The president's subordinates are tasked with protecting his ego first and Americans' lives second. His trade advisor Peter Navarro said on Fox & Friends, "I bet on President Trump's intuition on this." He said "this" because hydroxychloroquine was too hard to pronounce. Dr. Deborah Birx, coordinator of the White House's coronavirus task force, said that Trump is "so attentive to the scientific literature and the details and the data." This is true if Fox News chyrons count as scientific literature.
In the Trump administration, telling the truth is a fireable offense. Dr. Rick Bright, the director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, was removed for questioning the president's recommendation of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for the coronavirus. Now medical researchers have to worry about getting fired for not recommending ingesting bleach.
While visiting the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month, Trump boasted, "I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, 'How do you know so much about this?' Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president."
He should have. Our hospitals would be in much better shape if Trump were in one of them.
__________________
“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”Comment
-
Italy style govt quality kept your taxes low. Nobody complains about that.Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
When we're up against a once in a century opponent that demands overall 90% or better performance then we're all going to be found wanting.Comment
-
Do you believe you will find another 5 million infected come end JulyOriginally posted by astralis View Post
What infected you have now, double it by July end.
Is that possible ?
It needs the 20 states holding to drop into the red and those 13 mixed to regress from my post here
30 states to get into trouble is a big ask i think.
We will get a better idea when a few open next month. If enough people adhere to social distancing then the stats might not be too bad come May end.
Only get NYC density in NYC, the rest of the country is less densely populated.
Wish WAPO would make an updated league table of states or some one based on Trump's criteria.
Would make for a handy easy reckoner.Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Apr 20,, 23:10.Comment
-
People say these protesters are stupidOriginally posted by tbm3fan View Post
People say these protesters are not social distancing. They were in Lansing, at least. In their cars infecting no one.
People say these protesters are not wearing masks.
What i find missing in these people is fear. They're not afraid.
You don't need to tell people to do things when they're afraid and fear is more infectious than this virus.
Put fear & stupid in the ring and fear will win every time.
I look at cities in China i see fear. Shanghai opened on Feb 11. People did not show up at work until the end of the month.
Why ? Shanghai didn't have it so bad.
When are those five million that left Wuhan returning. They got ends to meet as well.
That's fear. CCP can't make them go to work. Well, maybe CCP can for some essential services.
But that's like flying on one engine instead of four.Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Apr 20,, 00:21.Comment
-
Why can't those conspiracy mongers accept this elegant explanation.Originally posted by Versus
There certainly was a bio lab in Wuhan, it was the bloody wet market !!
Nothing fancy, no security designations, just a bunch of people making a living ended up doing something more.
It remains closed to date. That notorious market in Hankow.Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Apr 20,, 00:34.Comment
-
Because of the second part of my response, its not "bombastic" and "shocking" enough.Originally posted by Double Edge View PostComment
-
Trump says briefings not worth his time after disinfectant gaffe
Washington (AFP) - President Donald Trump tweeted Saturday that his daily coronavirus briefings were not worth his time, two days after sparking a furor by suggesting patients might be injected with disinfectant to kill an infection.
He appeared to confirm media reports that he was considering halting the briefings, which dominate early-evening cable television news for sometimes more than two hours, out of frustration with questions about his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic.
"What is the purpose of having White House News Conferences when the Lamestream Media asks nothing but hostile questions, & then refuses to report the truth or facts accurately," Trump wrote.
"They get record ratings, & the American people get nothing but Fake News. Not worth the time & effort!"
On Thursday the US leader stunned viewers by saying doctors might treat people infected with the coronavirus by shining ultraviolet light inside their bodies, or with injections of household disinfectant.
"Then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks (the virus) out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs," he said.
After a strong rebuff of his suggestion by top medical experts and disinfectant manufacturers, Trump on Friday claimed he had been speaking "sarcastically."
But he limited that day's briefing, which usually includes himself, Vice President Mike Pence and members of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, to just 19 minutes, and did not take any questions from reporters.
And on Saturday, after 50 briefings over two months, the White House did not hold one at all.
Trump has used the briefings to occupy television screens and promote his administration's policies, fend off critics and attack political rivals -- from opposition Democrats to China to the US media.
But after more than 53,000 Americans have died from the novel coronavirus, the briefings, opinion polls suggest, have not bolstered Trump's popularity among voters as he gears up to battle Democrat Joe Biden in the presidential election in November.
An AP-NORC poll published Thursday showed that most Americans -- and a crushing majority of Democrats -- don't believe Trump when it comes to the health emergency facing the country.
___________________
Looks like it really got through to Doctor Dumbshit just how bad that "gaffe" was. So, like the little crybaby child that he is, he's going home and taking his toys with him. Shocking.
The problem now is that he doesn't have a safety valve to blow off steam anymore.
At least he admitted that his participation was just fake news.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”Comment
-
Debacle of Trump's coronavirus disinfectant comments could be tipping point
For Donald Trump, it was the strangest and most news-making thing he could have done: instead of taking questions from journalists, dominating the nation’s airwaves yet again, the US president gave a short pre-written statement and then stalked off the stage.
The abrupt end of Friday night’s daily press conference, which has become a ribald, unruly and often shocking ritual in America during the coronavirus pandemic, was probably the clearest sign yet of how badly Trump’s bizarre statements over disinfectant have shaken his administration.
Instead of going on the offensive after the world reacted with shock and horror to his Thursday night suggestion that the coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into a human body, Trump claimed he was being “sarcastic” and then retreated from public view.
The New York Times reported that some officials in the White House thought “it was one of the worst days in one of the worst weeks of his presidency.”
But it was Trump’s silence on Friday night that spoke volumes.
White House coronavirus taskforce briefings are often two-hour primetime marathons but on Friday Trump turned on his heel as reporters shouted questions in vain. Perhaps it was a fit of pique, or perhaps revenge on the reporters that he sees as persecutors. He may also have reached a tipping point, with his own advisers warning that the televised briefings are hurting him far more than they help.
Right on cue, minutes later, the Axios website reported that Trump plans to “pare back” his coronavirus press conferences, according to four of its sources. Next week, it said, “he may stop appearing daily and make shorter appearances when he does”.
If he does that then Trump’s remarks over disinfectant will have been the straw that broke the camel’s back over the nightly ritual of the virus briefings. For weeks they have dominated the US headlines as the nation struggles to come to terms with a pandemic that has cost 50,000 American lives. They have provided a canvas for Trump’s rage, a platform from which he can attack his enemies and – only occasionally – a place where an American president can seek to reassure a scared and besieged public enduring stay-at-home orders to curb the virus.
But Trump’s remarks over disinfectant changed all that.
On Thursday, Trump had suggested that doctors study the idea of people receiving injections of disinfectant to combat the virus. He also extolled the potential and unproven benefits of ultraviolet light. Medical experts, politicians and even disinfectant makers denounced the suggestion and warned the public against consuming the product. Trump’s comments generated internet memes and headlines around the world.
His old rival from 2016, Hillary Clinton, chimed in with a quick jab on Twitter. “Please don’t poison yourself because Donald Trump thinks it could be a good idea,” she said. His new rival for the 2020 election, former vice-president Joe Biden, also pitched in. “I can’t believe I have to say this, but please don’t drink bleach,” he said, mixing mockery with a public service announcement.
From almost the moment the words left Trump’s mouth it was clear some sort of damage limitation was needed.
But, as shock and amazement traversed the globe, it was slow in coming. When it did arrive, on Friday lunchtime, it was a clean-up attempt that clearly could have gone better. At a White House event Trump tried to justify his dangerous comments, falsely claiming that he was “asking a question sarcastically to reporters”.
On Friday, even as the US death toll topped 50,000 and the grim milestone of 1 million coronavirus cases grows nearer, Trump tried to make what critics saw as a desperate and dishonest U-turn.
“I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen,” the president, sitting at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office, told reporters as he signed emergency funding legislation.
“When I was asking a sarcastic – a very sarcastic question – to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside, but it does kill it, and it would kill it on the hands and that would make things much better. That was done in the form of a sarcastic question to a reporter.”
But video of the briefings clearly demonstrated otherwise. There was no hint of sarcasm and Trump’s attempts to rewrite the immediate past were undermined by the evidence just a simple Google search away.
When Trump posed the question about the efficacy of disinfectant injections, he had turned to his right and was looking in the direction of Bill Bryan, the acting homeland security undersecretary for science and technology, and Deborah Birx, the coronavirus taskforce coordinator.
But Trump – in his attempt at damage limitation – gamely pressed on. The Reuters reporter Jeff Mason asked if Trump wanted to clarify that he was being sarcastic and ensure no one misunderstood him.
He replied: “Yes. I do think that disinfectant on the hands could have a very good effect. Now, Bill is going back to check that in the laboratory. You know, it’s an amazing laboratory, by the way. It’s amazing the work they do.”
One more time, Mason gamely pressed: “Just to clarify, you’re not encouraging Americans to inject disinfectant?”
Trump: “No. Of course not. Interior-wise, it was said sarcastically. It was put in the form of a question to a group of extraordinarily hostile people, namely the fake news media.”
But Trump’s familiar turf of attacking the media was not working. In the middle of a pandemic, with Americans dying in their hundreds every day, the leader of the administration trying to guide the nation back to safety and normality had put even more lives at risk. His jumbled, inaccurate assertions only deepened concerns about Trump’s embrace of flawed science that could endanger public health.
Scott Gottlieb, Trump’s own former Food and Drug Administration director, was among those many people now forced to warn Americans not to follow their own president’s advice. He told a CNBC interviewer: “I think we need to speak very clearly. There’s no circumstance under which you should take a disinfectant or inject a disinfectant for the treatment of anything, and certainly not the treatment of coronavirus.”
The scandal exploded just a day after a New York Times report that detailed how Trump is coping with the pressures and isolation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. In a lengthy piece it portrayed a US president who has become cut off from many of his former friends and associates as he lives and works in the White House, unable to leave and travel and hold the campaign rallies that he appears to crave.
It described Trump bingeing on cable news for many hours each morning and often late into the night, surveying the wreckage of a once-booming economy that he had planned on being the main plank of his reelection strategy.
________________
Despite the headline, I doubt this is a tipping point for him, at least amongst his hardcore base. They'll follow him right off a cliff, chanting "Fake News!" and flipping the bird to "leftists" as they do so.
Really is a shame that people like surfgun and troung haven't risen to the defense of Trump in his time of need.
Also, what the fuck does "interior-wise" mean? Anybody got a clue?“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”Comment
-
None of this changes so he has to continue with the briefings.Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
Right now the US is in the middle, things can go either way but i'm feeling optimistic.
What did that comment cost the country ? NothingOriginally posted by TopHatter View Post
How many lives were lost because of that comment ? None
You all had a good laugh.
He'll get over it.
Modi once said he favoured sending the air force in only in cloudy weather as he thought it helped them hide better.
These guys are not supposed to know these details. Maybe they should not speak about them but yeah water off a ducks back.Comment
-
-
The Gunny answer.Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
When it comes to unpreventable deaths, the enemy (or virus) has a say. Those are unavoidable and the price of doing business. But, when the question is How many deaths are acceptable that could have been prevented? Then the answer is always zero.
I can't stop a Marine from getting killed from a bullet smacking him between the eyes. But I can make sure he is wearing his helmet and body armor. That he is well trained on movement under fire, the use of cover, ect. If he gets run over by an enemy tank, there is nothing I can do to stop that, but if he gets run over by a friendly tank/truck because the vehicle didn't have a ground guide and he was sleeping in a spot designated for traffic, then I am responsible for his death. I'm his leader and I failed.
You do everything that you can to keep people alive. To do otherwise is a failure of leadership. You don't worry about them being butthurt because they can't get their nails done, or cant go to the beach or get a tattoo. You explain why its important and take responsibility.
Comment
-
Which independently verifiable source gave you the impression that "Shanghai didn't have it so bad" ?Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
Remember: Shanghai has yet to record any cases of the 2002-04 SARS epidemic. None. Zero. Nada.
In other words, they lied.Trust me?
I'm an economist!Comment
Comment