COVID-2019 in America, effect on politics and economy

[GVChamp]

You don't need NBC training. The ship captain says he cannot comply with quarantine recommendations. He says he can maintain combat readiness, no problem, but several sailors are going to die to need to die to do it. That seems accurate based on how quickly it spreads in a confined location and how high the CFR is. He said he is going to get 80% of his crew sick or more, nothing that he can do about it, and at a .7% case fatality rate, you'd expect to have 20 fatalities.

Again, if the Navy wants to do that, absolutely can do that, but that's a pretty high human cost.

[GVChamp]

I'm from MN and have lived 8 years of my adult life in Minneapolis; so winter's not an issue.

I imagine the transit is better than either Mpls or San Diego.

MN winters are way worse than Chicago winters. Our Summers are muggier, but at least they are longer. And the transit is indeed a lot better!

However....Chicago still has crap for natural amenities, while Minnesota is the land of 10,000 lakes. The divide isn't guide as bad as between Chicago and, say, Portland, but it's pretttttty bad. However, we need more taxpayers, so you should pack your bags tonight, COVID be damned!

[Officer of Engineers]

You don't need NBC training. The ship captain says he cannot comply with quarantine recommendations.

I find that extremely hard to believe. He has nukes on board and two nuclear reactors. By the USS TR's very nature, it is a target for NBC strikes. Containing contamination is part of the job.

He says he can maintain combat readiness, no problem, but several sailors are going to die to need to die to do it. That seems accurate based on how quickly it spreads in a confined location and how high the CFR is. He said he is going to get 80% of his crew sick or more, nothing that he can do about it, and at a .7% case fatality rate, you'd expect to have 20 fatalities.

At 80%, his command is combat ineffective. Containment has failed BUT we ARE NOT seeing those numbers with the crew still on the TR nor on shore. And the mortaility rate of THE INFECTED is 0.2% for the 20-39 year olds. Again, medevac the sick which is well within his Command Authority. He did not need to ask Fleet Command for medevac.

Hindsight is 20/20 but mission first, people always. It is clear he has chosen people first over his mission. I do not fault him for that. He made a the best decision he could with the best information he had. He has made a choice that he must live with but it is also clear that he is no longer fit to be trusted with a mission.

[snapper]

Nice back tracking. You said you would put your Paeter down. This is NOT the freaking Black Death.

It is not the Middle Ages but it could be worse for all we know.

[snapper]

Where did you get your NBC training?

I have none. But how can he keep ship 'combat ready' when his crew are dying?

[Officer of Engineers]

I have none. But how can he keep ship 'combat ready' when his crew are dying?

His crew WAS NOT dying! They were getting sick.

[Officer of Engineers]

It is not the Middle Ages but it could be worse for all we know.

Whatever. I don't believe anything you say.

[snapper]

So you do not believe it is not 1300s?

But let's be serious - read that over 1m worldwide are known to got this virus (which I assume means tested positive) and of those a little over 51,000 had died. It is not going to be an existential crisis. Of course others may have died at home while 'self isolating' but still it is not going to end our species.

[TopHatter]

His crew WAS NOT dying! They were getting sick.

And he wanted to get as much of his crew off that incubator as possible to quarantine ashore.

[Officer of Engineers]

And he wanted to get as much of his crew off that incubator as possible to quarantine ashore.

At the cost of his mission.

Joe, whether the Capt (N) made the correct decision or not is irrevelent. He could not/did not carry out his mission. His fault. Fleet's fault. Trump's fault. God's fault. No one cares. For each carrier command, there are 4 others waiting on the sidelines to take that command. All it takes is one blemish and there are 4 others chomping to take that command. It's not fair but it is NOT SUPPOSED to be fair. War is not fair. Navy (hell, any military) wants commanders who can carry out their missions. Capt (N) Crozier failed in carrying out his mission and it does not matter if it's his fault or not.

[TopHatter]

At the cost of his mission.

Joe, whether the Capt (N) made the correct decision or not is irrevelent. He could not/did not carry out his mission. His fault. Fleet's fault. Trump's fault. God's fault. No one cares. For each carrier command, there are 4 others waiting on the sidelines to take that command. All it takes is one blemish and there are 4 others chomping to take that command. It's not fair but it is NOT SUPPOSED to be fair. War is not fair. Navy (hell, any military) wants commanders who can carry out their missions. Capt (N) Crozier failed in carrying out his mission and it does not matter if it's his fault or not.

Sir, the moment that COVID-19 was discovered on the ship, the mission was OVER. There was no "mission". The carrier immediately put into Guam, end of story.

The problem was the Navy wouldn't allow the crew off the ship, effectively damning every last one of them to be exposed to COVID-19.

As for war not being fair, I'll let CAPT Crozier say it: "We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die. If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset – our sailors."

[tbm3fan]

Well one can argue it all day ad infinitum but have to say, in the end, the Colonel is right like it or not.

The humanitarian in me wants to cheer for the Captain. However, the carrier was on a mission as our carriers are always on a mission every time they go out. No matter how many port calls they make to say hello their unstated mission is deterrence. Has always been that way for carriers just as with our boomers.

[TopHatter]

Well one can argue it all day ad infinitum but have to say, in the end, the Colonel is right like it or not.

The humanitarian in me wants to cheer for the Captain. However, the carrier was on a mission as our carriers are always on a mission every time they go out. No matter how many port calls they make to say hello their unstated mission is deterrence. Has always been that way for carriers just as with our boomers.

My point was that Theodore Roosevelt was mission-incapable due to COVID-19. The only mission left was to get as much of the healthy crew off the ship as possible and the sick crew to the proper medical facilities ashore.

Which is exactly what the Navy finally did.

[Officer of Engineers]

As for war not being fair, I'll let CAPT Crozier say it: "We are not at war. Sailors do not need to die. If we do not act now, we are failing to properly take care of our most trusted asset – our sailors."

And that is exactly why he was replaced. "We are not at war." He abadonned his mission.

How many have died? How many actually needed ventilators? Capt Crozier had the authority to medevac the infected. He did not. He only had 100 confirmed cases out of a crew of 4000. None of them life threatening.

Fleet Command had determined quarrantine aboard ship would have worked. Indeed, that is part of the NBC training. Capt (N) Crozier did not find out.

[surfgun]

If the Captain had gotten the ship to Pearl, it would have been much easier to maintain a lower profile and to manage the situation. Guam has limited infrastructure (that could have handled a few dozen by a quick offload).