The 2019-2020 Impeachment, Trial and Acquittal of Donald John Trump

[astralis]

what people say is different than what people do...

Trump is not "America First", Trump is Trump First. and Last.

[Firestorm]

How do you make the charge of anti-national to a President that is America first ?

And by extension followers of said President.

Just because he says America First doesn't mean he is America First. Words and deeds can tell different stories. With Trump it is a mixed bag.

[Double Edge]

what people say is different than what people do...

Trump is not "America First", Trump is Trump First. and Last.

Would you think China agrees ? or many other countries that trade with the US : )

I am saying what he says is in no doubt outside the US when it comes to American first.

In some ways the term is redundant as when has a president ever not been America First.

When you name it you own it.

The difference & problem with Trump's version of America first for the world is America first means so long as America gets what it wants the rest of the world can go to hell.

DE, it may not be pertinent to bring in comparisons with a very very different country to the US. The styles of government, issues at stake, country's economic status, even the very concept of "right" and "left" are different in each country.

Just interesting how one side de-legitmises the other : )

Just because he says America First doesn't mean he is America First. Words and deeds can tell different stories. With Trump it is a mixed bag.

Yes to the close watcher. But perception is what counts to the regular public. How are they going to respond.

He has a rep for doing what he says after all.

[TopHatter]

New polls show impeachment support approaching the danger zone for Trump
President Trump reportedly told his advisers last week that he would start worrying if national polls showed more than 50 percent of Americans supporting his impeachment. Five surveys released in the past two days show that public support for Trump’s impeachment is approaching a majority — and rising.

The polls were taken after the release of a memo summarizing a phone call in which Trump asked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, the basis for the impeachment inquiry launched last week by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, but before a flurry of developments late Monday afternoon gave added impetus to the investigation. Those included a report that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was among those who listened in on Trump’s July 25 call and the news that Trump also pressured Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison for information that could help discredit former special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation.

The surveys were framed slightly differently — some asking about support for the inquiry, others about impeachment outright — and the results varied, but in all cases the trends were unfavorable to the president.

• A CBS News poll found that 55 percent of Americans support the impeachment inquiry, while 45 percent disapprove. Among Democrats, 87 percent support the inquiry versus 13 percent who do not. Among Republicans, 23 percent support the impeachment inquiry, while 77 percent do not. In terms of Trump’s impeachment, 42 percent of those polled believe he deserves to be impeached, while 36 percent believe he does not. About a quarter (22 percent) feel it’s too soon to say.

• A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 45 percent of American adults believe Trump should be impeached, up from 37 percent who did a week ago. The survey found that 41 percent believe he should not be impeached; 15 percent said they “don’t know.” Among Democrats, 74 percent said Trump should be impeached — up 8 points over the past week — while 13 percent of Republicans said they supported impeachment, up 3 points.

• A CNN poll found that 47 percent believe Trump “should be impeached and removed from office,” up from 41 percent in May. The survey found that 45 percent disagree, down from 54 percent in the May poll. Part of the shift can be attributed to younger Republicans. Among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents under age 50, support for impeaching Trump and removing him from office has risen from 9 percent in May to 22 percent now, CNN’s poll found, while views among older Republicans and Republican leaners have held about even.

• A Quinnipiac poll showed a split (47 percent to 47 percent) among voters who support impeaching and removing President Trump from office and those who do not. But it represented a 10-point jump in support for his impeachment and removal compared with last week, when the same survey found just 37 percent supported it, compared with 57 percent who did not. The poll also asked respondents whether they thought Trump believes he is above the law. A majority (56 percent) said yes; 42 percent said no.

• A Monmouth University poll found support for Trump’s impeachment (44 percent) up 9 points since August, when just 35 percent supported it. Monmouth’s survey was the only one that found a majority (52 percent) not supporting the president’s impeachment. Link
_________________

These polls are going in the wrong direction if you think that the American public does not or will not support an impeachment inquiry (at the very least) of Donald Trump. And the inquiry has barely gotten off the ground.

Considering the man lost the popular vote to Clinton by nearly 3 million votes, overall numbers are not on his side.

He does possess at least a modicum of awareness about his vulnerability: A majority of Americans supporting impeachment means that GOP senators will have to consider something other than slavish acquittal.

Their loyalty to Trump ends where their reelection chances begin.

[TopHatter]

Why a Trump impeachment would be amazing news for the stock market
The impeachment of President Trump may not be that bad for investors, stock market experts suggest.

“This impeachment process may actually be good for U.S. equities. Trump could fight only so many battles. With everything going on with his own reputation and the likelihood of him being elected next year, he will begin focusing a lot more on that and probably a lot less on China. That means either a trade deal with China gets put on the back-burner, which would not be the worst deal for U.S. investors. Or, Trump comes out with a watered down deal to just get it done and behind him,” said money manager Thomas Fross of Fross & Fross Wealth Management on Yahoo Finance’s The First Trade.

Invesco Chief Market Strategist Kristina Hooper agrees.

“We could have the Fed stepping in and saying just like with trade, we’ll try to be more accommodative maybe with another insurance cut if they are worried there could actually be an impeachment to really breathe confidence into markets. So it could turn out to be a positive,” Hooper said. “The Trump administration’s policy agenda has been a mixed bag. Part has been pro growth like tax reform. But one could argue that their trade policy runs antithetical to growth. So, the presumption could be you will see a mixed reaction if there is another president because there would be the potential for the trade wars to go away depending on who that next president is.”

Thus far, the market has generally ignored the daily escalation in rhetoric down in DC between the Trump administration and Democrats on the impeachment front. September saw the Dow Jones Industrial Average and S&P 500 rise 3.1% and 2.5%, respectively. The Nasdaq Composite gained a more modest 1.6%, held back by the trade war’s financial impact on semiconductors such as Micron and an epic selloff in momentum name Netflix.

What happened during Clinton and Nixon
At this juncture, Mr. Market heads into the final quarter of the year thinking impeachment proceedings on Trump will resemble Bill Clinton’s more so than Richard Nixon’s.

In the two months before Clinton’s Senate acquittal in February 1999, the S&P 500 rallied about 10% according to JPMorgan data. Although not amidst the economic boom fueled by the dot com era a la Clinton’s time in office, the Trump economy continues to be one characterized by steady job gains and low historical unemployment. So in effect, the market’s read is that the U.S. economy could handle not only nasty impeachment headlines but also an impeachment of the president.

A friendly Federal Reserve also remains in play at the moment.

But while the bulls have control of the narrative, they shouldn’t forget the downside risks of possibly impeaching a president, warns former New York Stock Exchange floor trader Stephen Guilfoyle. He is right that the risk is high even if most investors continue to focus on the positives.

In the six months before Nixon resigned, the S&P 500 declined about 20%, gold spiked 15% and the 10-year yield increased 120 basis points, JPMorgan data shows.

But hey, at least we know where the president stands on the stock market outlook in a world minus him on the throne.

@realDonaldTrump
If they actually did this the markets would crash. Do you think it was luck that got us to the best Stock Market and Economy in our history. It wasn’t!

____________

And if people vote with their wallets, as they are wont to do, then there doesn't seem to be a lot of good news for Trump on the economic front either.

After all, we've seen what the "great dealmaker" can accomplish. (Hint: Chaos, confusion and uncertainty, which markets frown upon, for some reason)

[DOR]

No, I am saying supporters of the govt frequently accuse the opposition of being anti-national.

That is what you by implication are saying too : )

Fair enough.
What would you call this kind of behavior?
Certainly not politics as usual!

[Double Edge]

Fair enough.
What would you call this kind of behavior?
Certainly not politics as usual!

Getting dirt on opponents is not politics as usual anywhere in the world ?

What happened here is he is caught doing it. I'm not sure how that matters.

It's not something i'm condoning but how exactly do you prevent it

Does being President give him undue advantage to do this sort of thing ?

Or is juicy info available for the right price within his administration if only asked the right way

[DOR]

Getting dirt on opponents is not politics as usual anywhere in the world ?

What happened here is he is caught doing it. I'm not sure how that matters.

It's not something i'm condoning but how exactly do you prevent it

Does being President give him undue advantage to do this sort of thing ?

Or is juicy info available for the right price within his administration if only asked the right way

"Getting dirt on opponents" is not the subject.
Repeatedly seeking to involve foreign governments in the domestic political process is the subject.

[tbm3fan]

Getting dirt on opponents is not politics as usual anywhere in the world ?

What happened here is he is caught doing it. I'm not sure how that matters.

It's not something i'm condoning but how exactly do you prevent it

Does being President give him undue advantage to do this sort of thing ?

Or is juicy info available for the right price within his administration if only asked the right way

As DOR said getting dirt is not the issue. The issue was in asking a foreign government help in getting that dirt when the Founding Fathers were adamantly against any foreign interference in the electoral process. Trump, as a private citizen who has always skirted the law looking for favors and any advantage he could get, assumes he can do the same in government.

Doesn't surprise me given that he was born in New York City in 1946 where his father was big in real estate. The New York City of the 1940s was in deep with the Syndicates of the time. Mayors, Deputy Chief, many members of the NYPD were all taking bribes and graft. The Syndicate controlled all the vices along with the docks, trucking and the like. In fact if you wanted heating oil for your buildings you had to pay a bribe for it. His father, having money, no doubt knew of this and I'm sure Donald absorbed what his father passed on. In his early casino days he had two partners with mob connections which naturally violated the law. So for Trump to continue to skirt the law and violate it in some instances is simply being true to form and no surprise to me. I would guess that he thinks he is Mr. Untouchable like Capone once thought in Chicago.

[Double Edge]

Very good, if its accepted the intent isn't actionable. Then why does it matter where the source is ?

Its more likely that Americans are up to no good abroad as the laws are less stringent than at home. Therefore abroad is the place to look for dirt through whatever means possible. Does not require being President to pull this off.

I'm not sure of the specifics but i think you have laws that prohibit encouraging corruption abroad. I hear how American companies are at a disadvantage when it comes to arms deals say in comparison to the Euros let alone Russians & Chinese.

The real deal would be if Trump in an effort to check up on Biden did find something he could use.

Now who is in the wrong ? Trump for his efforts or Biden for being found out.

Am starting to think this case has no legs to stand on now.

[TopHatter]

Its more likely that Americans are up to no good abroad as the laws are less stringent than at home. Therefore abroad is the place to look for dirt through whatever means possible. Does not require being President to pull this off.

If that's the case, then you work through American law enforcement, like the FBI. You don't try to shake down a foreign leader like some Mafia boss and send in your own personal enforcer to do your dirty work.

Now who is in the wrong ? Trump for his efforts or Biden for being found out.

At the moment, Donald Trump is President of the United States, not Joe Biden. So there's a slight difference.

[TopHatter]

'I don't care.' Trump dismisses GOP concern over protecting whistleblower

WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump dismissed concerns Wednesday – including from some GOP lawmakers – about the need to shield a whistleblower at the center of allegations that he pressured Ukraine to dig up dirt on Joe Biden.

Asked about those concerns, Trump responded: "I don't care."

Trump has repeatedly questioned the legitimacy of the unnamed whistleblower in the intelligence community who filed an Aug. 12 complaint about the president's phone call with Ukraine's president. Trump said "a whistleblower should be protected if the whistleblower's legitimate."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who launched an impeachment inquiry of Trump last week, has said she was alarmed at the whistleblower’s report and a summary of a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that has been made public.

On the call, Trump repeatedly pressed Zelensky to investigate Biden, the 2020 Democratic presidential frontrunner, and his son, Hunter, who once had business interests in Ukraine. During the time of the conversation, the White House was holding up a military aid package Congress had approved for Ukraine.

The whistleblower has accused Trump of abusing the power of his office to try to discredit a political rival. Trump has said there was nothing improper about the phone call and has insisted there was no "quid pro quo" over the military aid.

Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, a co-founder of the Senate Whistleblower Caucus, said on Tuesday that the whistleblower deserves to be heard and protected. “We should always work to respect whistleblowers’ requests for confidentiality,” Grassley said.

Trump also renewed his attacks on House Democrats, including Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. and the chair of the House Intelligence Committee. Trump said Schiff couldn't carry Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's "blank strap," apparently a reference to a "jockstrap."

Earlier, Trump blasted a tweet storm minutes after a Democratic news conference, condemning impeachment as an attempt to force him from office that will damage the country. Trump challenged House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's stated desire to work on trade and drug prices, saying Democrats are obsessed with impeachment.

Democrats: Lawmakers threaten to subpoena White House for documents

Response: Trump sets Twitter record as White House fights off impeachment inquiry

Pompeo: Secretary of State was listening to Trump's call with Ukraine

Pelosi is "incapable" of working on other issues, the president wrote. "It is just camouflage for trying to win an election through impeachment. The Do Nothing Democrats are stuck in mud!"

In a tweet that preceded the meeting with the president of Finland, Trump also dropped a barnyard epithet in condemning the impeachment drive. The president described Democrats as wasting their time on "bullshit" despite his election in 2016.

He added: "Get a better candidate this time, you’ll need it!"

House Democrats have questioned the president’s past attacks on the whistleblower.

“I hope that you understand, and I suspect that you do, the seriousness of the president of the United States saying he wants to interview that person,” Pelosi said earlier Wednesday.

“The president probably doesn’t realize how dangerous his statements are when he says he wants to expose who the whistleblower is and those who may have given the whistleblower that information.”
______________

It's fairly obvious what Donald Trump cares about.

And of course, his dementia continues to advance: "blank strap"? What the fuck is a "blank strap"? Time for an MRI there Donnie Dementia.

[tbm3fan]

Very good, if its accepted the intent isn't actionable. Then why does it matter where the source is ?

Its more likely that Americans are up to no good abroad as the laws are less stringent than at home. Therefore abroad is the place to look for dirt through whatever means possible. Does not require being President to pull this off.

I'm not sure of the specifics but i think you have laws that prohibit encouraging corruption abroad. I hear how American companies are at a disadvantage when it comes to arms deals say in comparison to the Euros let alone Russians & Chinese.

The real deal would be if Trump in an effort to check up on Biden did find something he could use.

Now who is in the wrong ? Trump for his efforts or Biden for being found out.

Am starting to think this case has no legs to stand on now.

I truly believe that everything is going right over your head. Question is it intentional or you are simply not getting it. Well you are no student of early American history, the Constitutional Convention, and how it is applicable today.

[tbm3fan]

'I don't care.' Trump dismisses GOP concern over protecting whistleblower


“The president probably doesn’t realize how dangerous his statements are when he says he wants to expose who the whistleblower is and those who may have given the whistleblower that information.”
______________

It's fairly obvious what Donald Trump cares about.

And of course, his dementia continues to advance: "blank strap"? What the fuck is a "blank strap"? Time for an MRI there Donnie Dementia.

It is fairly obvious that Trump considers this person to be a snitch. Of course, it took whistleblowers to expose the Mob provided they got protection from the Mob who considered snitches to be traitors. It would seem Trump would like to expose the snitch, as was done it the old days, so it is handled as it was in the old days...

[tbm3fan]

See Trump had a press conference with the Finnish President today and railed the whole time against Pelosi, Schiff, and San Francisco again. Poor Finnish President as he had to sit there and listened to this stuff no doubt embarrassed. Not a single comment about Finland.