The US 2020 Presidential Election & Attempts To Overturn It

[TopHatter]

Funny I don't remember Lance Corporal Trump. Mattis was known as Mad Dog since the early 2000s

Imagine blatantly lying about such a well-known fact. The man lacks even the slightest shred of integrity. And to support him is simply indefensible.

[astralis]

I think part of it is just his personality-- he likes to lie for the hell of it.

but part of it is calculated.

he tells a small, meaningless lie; the listener chuckles and shakes their head at both the lie and the media going crazy about it; he slowly makes the lie bigger...and by that method, the listener never twigs on that they're now a part of the MAGA cult.

[Officer of Engineers]

And to support him is simply indefensible.

Support him? HELL NO but like every bad Officer I've ever known. You respect the Office, not the man but there are decisions that the man made that I can support. Him scaring KJU shitless and put the toughest sanctions Putin had ever known are but a few. While he did listen to Redfield in the beginning, he did let Fauci and Birx take over when American lives were at risk more than they were. Just to show you how he value advice behind close doors, Trump was ready to militarily enforced quarrantine in the NYC area. Fauci and Birx successfully argue that a travel advisory would do the same thing.

But when Trump crossed a line, people were ready to confront him. Esper backed by Generals did just that.

[GVChamp]

Support him? HELL NO but like every bad Officer I've ever known. You respect the Office, not the man but there are decisions that the man made that I can support. Him scaring KJU shitless and put the toughest sanctions Putin had ever known are but a few. While he did listen to Redfield in the beginning, he did let Fauci and Birx take over when American lives were at risk more than they were. Just to show you how he value advice behind close doors, Trump was ready to militarily enforced quarrantine in the NYC area. Fauci and Birx successfully argue that a travel advisory would do the same thing.

But when Trump crossed a line, people were ready to confront him. Esper backed by Generals did just that.

This is really a spot where Trump's incompetence and brash style does in him. The majority of Americans currently support using the military to stop the riots and a majority of Americans think the police are either acting appropriately not acting aggressive enough. If we were talking about Ted Cruz this would be a different story, if we were talking about Rubio this might be a generational shift.

Twitter doesn't really know what it's talking about, which is why Biden just locked up the nomination even though Biden was not popular in those circles at all.

In the long-term, I wouldn't count on any bright lines protecting you. I know Twitter is posting stories about GOPers finally abandoning Trump, but all the IRL Trump supporters I know think it's time to arm up. They'd probably be okay with the de facto death of the republic at this point. Millennials and Zoomer left don't think about civil society or civil rights in the way older generations do and think the entire system is racist and illegitimate and alternative viewpoints are dangerous/need to be silenced.

At this point I'd put a shooting match at 50/50 in the next 20 years. These people are insane.

[hboGYT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUWIi-Ppe5k Good channel.

[Officer of Engineers]

At this point I'd put a shooting match at 50/50 in the next 20 years. These people are insane.

As of today, dinosaurs are still in charge of the military but I fear you're right when baby seals start taking over. They have no idea about the clubbing they are about to inflict upon themselves.

[astralis]

In the long-term, I wouldn't count on any bright lines protecting you. I know Twitter is posting stories about GOPers finally abandoning Trump, but all the IRL Trump supporters I know think it's time to arm up. They'd probably be okay with the de facto death of the republic at this point. Millennials and Zoomer left don't think about civil society or civil rights in the way older generations do and think the entire system is racist and illegitimate and alternative viewpoints are dangerous/need to be silenced.

eh...you're right on the first point.

a good portion of the right has given up on the idea of representative democracy because they KNOW that their positions are unpopular and are increasingly unpopular year on year.

but as to your second point, it's not the Millennial or Zoomer left that's sporting tacticool, flashing firearms at state legislative houses, talking about watering the tree of liberty, and forming 3% militia.

if anything, the Millennial/Zoomer left is significantly less radical than their 1960s forebears; none of the Mao or Ho Chi Minh worship, Black Power/Liberation Army stuff. there's no SDS, let alone the Weather Underground nutsos.

[astralis]

As of today, dinosaurs are still in charge of the military but I fear you're right when baby seals start taking over. They have no idea about the clubbing they are about to inflict upon themselves.

re: dinosaurs and baby seals, as a reminder, your average Millennial officer in the military now is an O-4, with a sprinkling of O-5s...might not be dinosaurs, but the backs are beginning to ache and the urge to yell at kids to get off lawns is intensifying...:-)

[Officer of Engineers]

the urge to yell at kids to get off lawns is intensifying...:-)

You know how much work there is going into a lawn? Anything that adds to work is never appreaciated, especially when the backs are aching.

[Officer of Engineers]

a good portion of the right has given up on the idea of representative democracy because they KNOW that their positions are unpopular and are increasingly unpopular year on year.

but as to your second point, it's not the Millennial or Zoomer left that's sporting tacticool, flashing firearms at state legislative houses, talking about watering the tree of liberty, and forming 3% militia.

if anything, the Millennial/Zoomer left is significantly less radical than their 1960s forebears; none of the Mao or Ho Chi Minh worship, Black Power/Liberation Army stuff. there's no SDS, let alone the Weather Underground nutsos.

If anything, the left loonies are just as well armed as the right loonies if not as organized. They are certainly better armed than their 1960s/70s ancestors. But certainly, left loonies are just as looney as their forebearers.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...un-laws-242506

[tbm3fan]

In the long-term, I wouldn't count on any bright lines protecting you. I know Twitter is posting stories about GOPers finally abandoning Trump, but all the IRL Trump supporters I know think it's time to arm up. They'd probably be okay with the de facto death of the republic at this point.

Hmm, today's Brown Shirts...

[Oracle]

1:19 to 1:13, authoritarian regime, really? People will riot, loot shops and law enforcement should step aside for the looters comfort? What's happening is not democracy, it's anarchy. Totally sure there is some racism, but there is no single person who isn't biased. Heck, we are biased towards our own families, even when they're wrong. And why, when I see videos of black or white people in US getting arrested, they always resist. When the police wants to arrest somebody, that someday should let the officer do his job, go to the station, and fight his/her case if there is any with the help of a lawyer. They get their phone call, we don't over here. Dislike Trump all you want, hate Trump, but burning/looting your own country when people should stand together and fight Covid-19, unemployment, differences, this is so low.

Every time a black person dies, this kind of anarchy happens. Not saying it's wrong to protest or black lives are cheap. But after some time, people forget. Why not ask your representatives to strip the Police of heavy handedness, why not ask them to make federal laws so that these kind of incidents don't happen again and again?

[astralis]

Oracle,

And why, when I see videos of black or white people in US getting arrested, they always resist.

and what is the viewership of videos where people are arrested peacefully?

part of the rage behind the George Floyd protests is because Floyd -didn't- resist, and he was murdered by the police. and the only reason why this came to light was because someone filmed it-- and even then, the police tried to lie truth out of creation, first by claiming he was resisting arrest, and then when that was proven to be a lie, smearing his background.

same thing with Ahmaud Arbery. the police took no action for months following the murder; when the video of the murder came to light, the police made arrests within hours.

it shouldn't take video evidence and public humiliation to make the police do their work professionally.

When the police wants to arrest somebody, that someday should let the officer do his job, go to the station, and fight his/her case if there is any with the help of a lawyer.

too many cases of where the police have behaved badly, lied about the circumstances of the crime or the arrest. we're seeing that -right now- with the number of police getting fired for misuse of force during the protests.

even worse, there are times when police are not held accountable for their actions at all. the shooting of Bijan Ghaisar comes to mind. the Park Police and FBI have refused to say ANYTHING about the case, despite the DC Congressional representative, two Virginia Senators, the Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and a VA Representative all leaning on the FBI to provide information!

Dislike Trump all you want, hate Trump, but burning/looting your own country when people should stand together and fight Covid-19, unemployment, differences, this is so low.

every country has its engrained issues. racism, systematic and institutional racism, is one of them in the US.

it was only 50 years ago that -legal- racism came mostly to an end at the federal level, and years after that at the state level. cultural and institutional racism to this day.

red-lining, for instance.

i don't like the looting either, but I also understand the rage behind it, given our screwed up legal system where cops who murder people get re-hired to get a pension .

and our political system? guess when the first federal anti-lynching law was proposed in the US.

1900.

there have been 200 anti-lynching bills proposed through Congress since that time.

it's now 2020 and a federal anti-lynching bill still has not passed.

so yes, I don't like the looting either. but the real travesty, the far worse issue, is that black people are getting killed by agents of the state at insanely high rates, and often they have little recourse in a court of law.

[Albany Rifles]

Eric,

What is puzzling about the Bijan Ghaisar case is this kind of behavior is not normal for the Park Police. Just doesn't fit their normal method of operations.

[GVChamp]

eh...you're right on the first point.

a good portion of the right has given up on the idea of representative democracy because they KNOW that their positions are unpopular and are increasingly unpopular year on year.

but as to your second point, it's not the Millennial or Zoomer left that's sporting tacticool, flashing firearms at state legislative houses, talking about watering the tree of liberty, and forming 3% militia.

if anything, the Millennial/Zoomer left is significantly less radical than their 1960s forebears; none of the Mao or Ho Chi Minh worship, Black Power/Liberation Army stuff. there's no SDS, let alone the Weather Underground nutsos.

The Millennial/Zoomer left is pretty radical in terms of policy, they just aren't as radical in terms of actual methods....yet. There are plenty of dumbass leftist radicals that still "stan" for Stalin and China.
The larger issue is that the Millennial/Zoomer consensus is fundamentally anti-liberal because it emphasizes emotional security and well-being while being stuck entirely inside of an echo chamber that constantly feeds itself more and more rage. This is not a good place to be in.

Dislike Trump all you want, hate Trump, but burning/looting your own country when people should stand together and fight Covid-19, unemployment, differences, this is so low.

Every time a black person dies, this kind of anarchy happens. Not saying it's wrong to protest or black lives are cheap. But after some time, people forget. Why not ask your representatives to strip the Police of heavy handedness, why not ask them to make federal laws so that these kind of incidents don't happen again and again?

Well, a couple things. First, we don't see protests like this all the time. This is pretty unusual in the Great Moderation Era. But between social media, constantly telling people they live in a police state, and constantly telling people that black people (and specifically black people) are dying by the truckloads every day, people are going to radicalize. Lock them in their houses for months, and they are going to get REAL uneasy and will protest at the drop of a hat.
There's also been a couple of utterly egregious cases of racial injustice the past few weeks. There was a Central Park birdwatcher who had the police called on him by an uppity middle-aged woman during a spat about dog-leashing, there was a black jogger who was clearly murdered by 2 white guys and the local government basically hushed it up, and then there was this. I am generally unsympathetic towards BLM, and even in the MN case I think these guys should probably walk, but these are all cases with clear right-and-wrong.

As for reform, asking the government to strip police of powers and protection is extremely difficult, as my libertarian friends can attest. The police are generally quite popular, and most people want MORE police and MORE police funding. Also, even if you get a coalition against the police, the police can always strike, and then you are basically screwed. Like, within hours, unless you have the National Guard already on hand to provide law enforcement.

Personally I am of the opinion all public sector unions should be banned, but then again, that's an extreme position that no one is ever going to support.