2018 American Political Scene

[TopHatter]

I posted the DOJ regs requiring a predicate crime. Otherwise the government can open any investigation on anyone at any time for anything. Thats not the rule of law. Our common law system is based on innocent until proven guilty. This maxim is based on a common law tradition that says what is not forbidden is permitted. So without a clear violation government has no right to pry. No one has been able to put forward what crime that Trump or his campaign allegedly committed.

Looks more like guidelines to me. Also, what's the point of, say, a grand jury? Is that not the rule of law? No one has been able to forward what crime Trump committed...Isn't that what a grand jury is for?

You said "Rosenstein doesn't mention the word crime, criminal or any related word in his letter apointing Mueller." so I'll ask you again:

Rosenstein doesn't mention the word "crime" in his letter appointing Mueller (or does he?). Where does it say he has to do that?

He invoked §600.1, period. Where does it say he has to then quote §600.1 verbatim in order for it be applicable?

[Ironduke]

Clinton fired off tomahawks at a chemicals facility in Sudan in 1998. They said it was the tail wagging the dog and he needed a diversion from that Monica thing

You know, we ought to be more like the French when it comes to this kind of stuff, where it's seen as perfectly normal to have a paramour, mistress, etc. Virtually everybody in the US has affairs and indiscretions, so what, it's human nature. Too many Americans have a tendency to rationalize and justify their behavior when they do it themselves, but are hypocritical, and get outraged and judgmental when someone else does it.

I'll never criticize Trump for his affairs, but we should live in a society where nobody cared in the first place how Trump gets his kicks. His wife probably doesn't care at all about the actual affairs, but rather the humiliating press coverage and the fact that we live in a society where one paramour feels compelled to pay off and hush up the other, and the other paramour wants to make money off what shouldn't be a scandal in the first place, and half the country wants a front row seat to the soap opera drama.

The deafening silence on WAB about Trump's imbroglios, I take it as more or less that everybody's thinking the same thing, even if they're not as brazen as me, a bachelor for life, to just come out and say it.

[Double Edge]

You know, we ought to be more like the French when it comes to this kind of stuff, where it's seen as perfectly normal to have a paramour, mistress, etc. Virtually everybody in the US has affairs and indiscretions, so what, it's human nature. Too many Americans have a tendency to rationalize and justify their behavior when they do it themselves, but are hypocritical, and get outraged and judgmental when someone else does it.

You were like that in the past. Remember JFK. Where was the republican outrage then ? in those days public figures didn't live in a glass bowl like now. The media kept its distance to a certain extent. It wasn't spoken about.

I'll never criticize Trump for his affairs, but we should live in a society where nobody cared in the first place how Trump gets his kicks. His wife probably doesn't care at all about the actual affairs, but rather the humiliating press coverage and the fact that we live in a society where one paramour feels compelled to pay off and hush up the other, and the other paramour wants to make money off what shouldn't be a scandal in the first place, and half the country wants a front row seat to the soap opera drama.

The deafening silence on WAB about Trump's imbroglios, I take it as more or less that everybody's thinking the same thing, even if they're not as brazen as me, a bachelor for life, to just come out and say it.

The joke here is Trump nor his base gives a damn about his indiscretions or his mannerisms so nothing sticks : D

[Ironduke]

You were like that in the past. Remember JFK. Where was the republican outrage then ? in those days public figures didn't live in a glass bowl like now. The media kept its distance to a certain extent. It wasn't spoken about.

The joke here is Trump nor his base gives a damn about his indiscretions or his behaviour so nothing sticks : D

You're right.

Nothing is sacred anymore, I suppose.

[zraver]

Looks more like guidelines to me. Also, what's the point of, say, a grand jury? Is that not the rule of law? No one has been able to forward what crime Trump committed...Isn't that what a grand jury is for?

You said "Rosenstein doesn't mention the word crime, criminal or any related word in his letter apointing Mueller." so I'll ask you again:

Rosenstein doesn't mention the word "crime" in his letter appointing Mueller (or does he?). Where does it say he has to do that?

He invoked §600.1, period. Where does it say he has to then quote §600.1 verbatim in order for it be applicable?

the statue is for criminal prosecution, that requires at least an allegation of a predicate crime. Even a before a GJ the prosecutor must lay out a predicate crime as the basis for the investigation. Without probable cause the government is not allowed to violate the constitutional rights of citizens and this includes privacy.

[TopHatter]

the statue is for criminal prosecution, that requires at least an allegation of a predicate crime.

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). [including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses. - TH]

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(iv) tl;dr We think the Russians colluded with the Trump Campaign to influence the election and the Trump Campaign covered it up. Go find out if that's true or not because something stinks to the high heavens here and that putrid smell is clearly coming from Trump Tower.

He has the authorization he needs. IF it ever went to court, the judge(s) will reply "Yeah that's something I'd like to find out too" and dismiss it.

Whether you like it or not, Mueller is going to be on the job until the truth is uncovered. Given the moral cesspool that is the Trump Organization, and the increasingly shrill tweets coming out of the Oval Office, I'd say Fuckface Von Clownstick has a LOT to worry about. And so do his lawyers, associates and family. They're all on borrowed time.

[TopHatter]

The deafening silence on WAB about Trump's imbroglios, I take it as more or less that everybody's thinking the same thing, even if they're not as brazen as me, a bachelor for life, to just come out and say it.

I'd say it's more like "Why waste bandwidth on beating a dead horse".

We know full well what kind of character that man possesses (rotting corpses have more) and pointing out his imbroglios here on the WAB is simultaneously bouncing the rubble and beneath us.

We'll leave the outrage for the usual liberal leftist pages on Facebook (Occupy Democrats, for starters) to scream and whine about. It's a full time job and we have better things to do.

There's certainly a very small minority of Trump supporters here, which I find extremely heartening, given the generally right/center-right makeup of the board.

The joke here is Trump nor his base gives a damn about his indiscretions or his mannerisms so nothing sticks : D

Very, very true.

It's staggering really, what Trump supporters are willing to tolerate from that man and yet remain silent.
Pretty obvious it's because Trump is saying and doing the things that they can't say out loud in polite company...but Trump can.

He's validating their bitter rage over the prior 8 years of Obama. How can they criticize that?

[zraver]

The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). [including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses. - TH]

(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(iv) tl;dr We think the Russians colluded with the Trump Campaign to influence the election and the Trump Campaign covered it up. Go find out if that's true or not because something stinks to the high heavens here and that putrid smell is clearly coming from Trump Tower.

He has the authorization he needs. IF it ever went to court, the judge(s) will reply "Yeah that's something I'd like to find out too" and dismiss it.

Whether you like it or not, Mueller is going to be on the job until the truth is uncovered. Given the moral cesspool that is the Trump Organization, and the increasingly shrill tweets coming out of the Oval Office, I'd say Fuckface Von Clownstick has a LOT to worry about. And so do his lawyers, associates and family. They're all on borrowed time.

Still no predicate crime listed. The one thing we know so far is that the only campaign that coordinated with Russian's was the HRC16 campaign. Who did so while actively violating federal election laws regarding spending reporting and the use of cut outs and agents to mask its activities in Russia. Every indictment handed down by Mueller is either a crime from before the 16 campaign, or a process crime. Now like Starr he is branching out and becoming a bed room cop. The big difference is Trump didn't lie under oath to deny an American citizen their day in Court.

[snapper]

What is the difference between a "predicate crime" and your normal ordinary crime? Like conspiracy with a foreign power to interfere in elections or obstruction of justice?

[snapper]

I just feel it demeans our conversations to bring up the infidelity allegations and the "spanking" business but I agree fully with TH that it shows entirely what sort of crass person Trumpkin is; entirely unfit to hold Office of any sort. The world will be safer when he is impeached in my view. Let us hope he is but an aberration and not a symptom of a greater disease.

[citanon]

LOL where were you guys when LBJ pranced around butt naked on AF One?

[TopHatter]

Still no predicate crime listed.

As snapper said, what exactly is a predicate crime in your opinion?

The big difference is Trump didn't lie under oath to deny an American citizen their day in Court.

Probably because Trump hasn't testified under oath. And you should thank God Almighty every single day that he doesn't.

[TopHatter]

LOL where were you guys when LBJ pranced around butt naked on AF One?

Not even born yet.

And I have no idea where I was when two wrongs made a right. Where were you?

[citanon]

Not even born yet.

And I have no idea where I was when two wrongs made a right. Where were you?

Mentally: no cares on either one. I vote for a president to get things done. More power to him if he's getting some fun with porn stars and playmates.

Edit: actually I take it back. I'm amused and entertained. It's a value added for me. :D

[tbm3fan]

the statue is for criminal prosecution, that requires at least an allegation of a predicate crime. Even a before a GJ the prosecutor must lay out a predicate crime as the basis for the investigation. Without probable cause the government is not allowed to violate the constitutional rights of citizens and this includes privacy.

... and around and around you will go till the end of time. For some strange reason the Statue seems pretty clear in it's description as to what it can do at least to me and TH.

I would point out that you seem fixated on the verb predicated which seems only to exist in your head. Can't find it is the Statue and pretty much can't find it at all in relation to a Grand Jury. What I can find is that a Grand Jury

A grand jury is a legal body empowered to conduct official proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct, and determine whether criminal charges should be brought

I think the operative word here is "potential" as opposed to predicated. Maybe you just have the two mixed up in your head. Sometimes stuff like this can be confusing like there and their.