2017 American Political Scene

[snapper]

Impeach the traitor before he does any more harm.

[zraver]

And of course, there is Roy Moore, who has responded to voluminous accusations of impropriety with children by attempting to discredit the press — dovetailing with Trump’s “fake-news” attacks.

This is why the media isn't trusted. The attacks on Moore have zero evidence, the claims about Franken were admitted to.

[GVChamp]

CBO data.

__ _ _ _ Lows_ _ _ _ _ _ _Highs
Revenue
2009 _ 14.6%_ _ _1969_ _ 19.0%
2010_ 14.6%_ _ _ 1981_ _ 19.1%
2011_ 15.0% _ _ _1998_ _ 19.2%
2012_ 15.3% _ _ _ 1999_ _ 19.2%
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2000 _ _ 20.0%

Spending (Highs)
1982 _ _ 22.5%
1983 _ _ 22.8%
1984 _ _ 22.2%
2009 _ _ 24.4%
2010 _ _ 23.4%
2011 _ _ 23.4%
2012 _ _ 22.1%

Observations
Low revenues in 2009-12 were at least as much of the cause of the recent large deficits as high spending, especially considering the free-fall in economic activity and prices.

There are at least two more points of GDP worth of revenue that may be tapped without a significant break with the historic precedent.

There are at least two more points of GDP worth of spending that may be tapped without a significant break with the historic precedent

Your top revenue number and top spending number are both outliers. The 2000 number is at the peak of an economic boom, the 2009 number the end of an economic recession. Either or might be reached as a peak, but if it is a new TREND, that's a major increase in both.

It's also correct to say that we can run 6% GDP deficits every year and it wouldn't be the record, but it's bad if you are running 6% deficits EVERY year. It's not necessarily "bad" to increase government spending outright, and there are well-run nations that do fine with governments much larger than ours, but I don't think the money is worth it, and I don't want to pay it.

[astralis]

z,

The attacks on Moore have zero evidence, the claims about Franken were admitted to.

that just means Franken at least had the decency to acknowledge his disgusting behavior...which -still- isn't half as disgusting as what Moore did.

as for "zero evidence" against Moore, well...no.

in any case, if the media weren't trusted, then Doug Jones right now wouldn't have even a snowball's chance in hell of winning. as it is, he's got a pretty good shot in the reddest state outside of Mississippi.

[Bigfella]

Did Franken actually admit that he kissed someone without permission? What I heard is that he says he didn't recall it but apologized profusely and insisted that the woman in question be believed. I'm yet to see any attacks on her from Dem supporters (maybe a few in the dark recesses of the internet), so at least she doesn't have to put up with the usual nastiness.

It doesn't excuse his behavior, but compare it to the attacks on the women who have either claimed Moore assaulted them or that he targeted them while they were teenagers. They have been accused of lying & conspiring. Even more shocking are the people who have said that they will support Moore even if it is true, or that what he is accused of is OK.

Franken is scummy, but he is at least trying to act human now. Moore is a gutter crawler & is doubling down.

[snapper]

So what happens to the self confessed "p**sy grabber"?

[DOR]

Your top revenue number and top spending number are both outliers. The 2000 number is at the peak of an economic boom, the 2009 number the end of an economic recession. Either or might be reached as a peak, but if it is a new TREND, that's a major increase in both.

It's also correct to say that we can run 6% GDP deficits every year and it wouldn't be the record, but it's bad if you are running 6% deficits EVERY year. It's not necessarily "bad" to increase government spending outright, and there are well-run nations that do fine with governments much larger than ours, but I don't think the money is worth it, and I don't want to pay it.

You can muddy the waters by caling 20% an outlier, but how about 19%? Yeah, I put that string of 19s up there, too, so as to make it sort of silly to say I cherry picked the data. Not happy with 24%? Grab a 22 (%) and get back on target.

[zraver]

z,



that just means Franken at least had the decency to acknowledge his disgusting behavior...which -still- isn't half as disgusting as what Moore did.

as for "zero evidence" against Moore, well...no.

So he chased after legal age girls. Distasteful, not illegal. As for 38 marrying 24.... pfft. Alex's mom was born in 1985, I was born in 1973. 14 years is not that big of a gap for adults, its not even uncommon. Franken sexually assaulted 2 women. As for the claim about Moore and the 14yo. If the comparisons of writing styles I've seen are true, they were written by two different hands. Signatures might change, mine sure has, but my numbers look pretty much the same. The fact that Gloria Alred wont release the book to be forensically examined speaks volumes. The issue could have been settled by now. Personally, I think Moore is a bad person to be in the senate he doesn't believe in constitutional order, that is proven. But just becuase someone is X does not mean they are Y. Weaponizing sexual abuse/harassment/assault claims based on zero hard evidence decades after the abuse allegedly occurred is a very slippery slope.

in any case, if the media weren't trusted, then Doug Jones right now wouldn't have even a snowball's chance in hell of winning. as it is, he's got a pretty good shot in the reddest state outside of Mississippi.

The same media that cost you several tins of butter cookies.

[zraver]

Did Franken actually admit that he kissed someone without permission? What I heard is that he says he didn't recall it but apologized profusely and insisted that the woman in question be believed. I'm yet to see any attacks on her from Dem supporters (maybe a few in the dark recesses of the internet), so at least she doesn't have to put up with the usual nastiness.

It doesn't excuse his behavior, but compare it to the attacks on the women who have either claimed Moore assaulted them or that he targeted them while they were teenagers. They have been accused of lying & conspiring. Even more shocking are the people who have said that they will support Moore even if it is true, or that what he is accused of is OK.

Franken is scummy, but he is at least trying to act human now. Moore is a gutter crawler & is doubling down.

Actually, Franken's main accuser has been slut shamed on MSNBC and other outlets... Seems the fact she once posed nude means she can be harassed at will be Dem politicians. or should Moore apologize if he is innocent. That is like asking him if he stopped beating his wife, it presupposes his guilt. Franken is more than scummy, its false remorse, he has a history of dehumanzing women and now credible allegations it was all talk.

[astralis]

z,

So he chased after legal age girls. Distasteful, not illegal. As for 38 marrying 24.... pfft. Alex's mom was born in 1985, I was born in 1973. 14 years is not that big of a gap for adults, its not even uncommon. Franken sexually assaulted 2 women. As for the claim about Moore and the 14yo. If the comparisons of writing styles I've seen are true, they were written by two different hands. Signatures might change, mine sure has, but my numbers look pretty much the same. The fact that Gloria Alred wont release the book to be forensically examined speaks volumes. The issue could have been settled by now. Personally, I think Moore is a bad person to be in the senate he doesn't believe in constitutional order, that is proven. But just becuase someone is X does not mean they are Y. Weaponizing sexual abuse/harassment/assault claims based on zero hard evidence decades after the abuse allegedly occurred is a very slippery slope.

the writer's point is that Moore was perfectly comfortable with a 14-year age difference when it came to his marriage at 38, so why should it be a surprise that at 32 he was chasing after 14-18 year olds?

bottom-line, somehow i doubt any of us would be comfortable leaving a young daughter alone with this freak. the guy was banned from a mall and was known to hang around high schools. there's a good reason why we're hearing stuff like "well this was just like the relationship between Mary and Joseph" or "that's just the way it was back then" or "it wasn't sexual assault, he just kissed the 14 year old" and not "no, none of this ever happened".

don't think that's really "weaponizing" anything to say that even if you discount all of the testimony, the best you can say is that Moore was known to chase after barely-legal young girls. he certainly couldn't answer the charges, even -Hannity- couldn't get a good answer out of him. still, i'm glad you recognize that even without his predilections for barely post-pubescent girls, he has ignored the law for a good long time now.

The same media that cost you several tins of butter cookies.

eh, and the same media that cost several members of WAB butter cookies even earlier than that, as well...:-)

i'm not saying Jones will win-- this is -Alabama- we're talking about after all. but if the media is so unbelievable as all that, then there should be NO way that he should have anything close to favorable polls. the issue is not the media, the issue is why Republicans would select this freak show as their candidate for a senatorship.

[surfgun]

The Moore information would have been extremely credible and even helpful if it was revealed during the primaries. Nuff said.

[zraver]

z,



the writer's point is that Moore was perfectly comfortable with a 14-year age difference when it came to his marriage at 38, so why should it be a surprise that at 32 he was chasing after 14-18 year olds?

bottom-line, somehow i doubt any of us would be comfortable leaving a young daughter alone with this freak. the guy was banned from a mall and was known to hang around high schools. there's a good reason why we're hearing stuff like "well this was just like the relationship between Mary and Joseph" or "that's just the way it was back then" or "it wasn't sexual assault, he just kissed the 14 year old" and not "no, none of this ever happened".

don't think that's really "weaponizing" anything to say that even if you discount all of the testimony, the best you can say is that Moore was known to chase after barely-legal young girls. he certainly couldn't answer the charges, even -Hannity- couldn't get a good answer out of him. still, i'm glad you recognize that even without his predilections for barely post-pubescent girls, he has ignored the law for a good long time now.



eh, and the same media that cost several members of WAB butter cookies even earlier than that, as well...:-)

i'm not saying Jones will win-- this is -Alabama- we're talking about after all. but if the media is so unbelievable as all that, then there should be NO way that he should have anything close to favorable polls. the issue is not the media, the issue is why Republicans would select this freak show as their candidate for a senatorship.

Zero proof he did anything with the 14yo and the other actual accuser has some serious holes in her story as well. minus actual verifiable proof these are weaponized claims. Showing up as an October surprise just before an election is key to it being weaponized. I highly doubt the WaPo just found these people, the woman with the year book didn't just stumble into Gloria Alred's office. Timing matters and it points to a deliberate strategy.

[astralis]

^ already addressed in the Saletan article.

None of these women knew one another. How, then, did they produce similar stories? There are two possible answers. One is that Moore had a pattern of pursuing teens. The other is that the Post orchestrated the allegations. But then you’d have to explain how the Post went back in time and got Corfman to tell the same story to two friends and a boyfriend decades ago. You’d have to explain why Corfman’s and Miller’s mothers would each lie about witnessing encounters with Moore. And you’d have to explain why several other people from Moore’s town, Gadsden, Alabama, are giving firsthand or secondhand accounts, on the record, of Moore flirting with girls. “It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls,” said Teresa Jones, Moore’s former colleague in the district attorney’s office. “We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and the mall.” The Post has no hand in these stories. Many of them are appearing on AL.com, a website for Alabama newspapers. Are all of these people lying?

WaPo decides to do an "October surprise" here and not in Virginia? lol. moreover, if the media is not trusted as you assert earlier, why would any of this have credence?

bottom-line, are you comfortable with having your daughter unsupervised for even 5 minutes with this guy? there's no evidence of any wrongdoing and everything he did was perfectly legal and this is just a smear story made up by the media, right?

[Skywatcher]

Mr. Moore's mall ban is one of the most damning pieces.

At the rate things are going, I expect that his campaign will start touting that unlike the sexual hypocrisies of other homophobes, his is heterosexual.

[zraver]

^ already addressed in the Saletan article.



WaPo decides to do an "October surprise" here and not in Virginia? lol. moreover, if the media is not trusted as you assert earlier, why would any of this have credence?

bottom-line, are you comfortable with having your daughter unsupervised for even 5 minutes with this guy? there's no evidence of any wrongdoing and everything he did was perfectly legal and this is just a smear story made up by the media, right?

Gilespie was never going to win VA, Northern VA is as blue as NYC ad he had no real appeal in the red areas of the state. Would I want my daughter alone with him, no, but I wouldn't want my daughter alone with any man not even you. No offense but that is just a dad thing. You can deny that the timing was deliberate all you want, but it is telling as is the involvement of Gloria Alred.

Skywatcher,

The mall ban is just rumor.