2017 American Political Scene

[Bigfella]

All nations have had bad times. For example (and you can research this if you like) the Boers/Afrikaners were put in the very first concentration camps, 20% of our population perished, mostly our children. The 2nd Boer war saw 450 000 Professional British soldiers against 30 000 mere farmers. And we gave them one bloody nose. The Great British empire at its high water mark against mere farmers.

It seems appropriate during a discussion on myth making by white Southerners that you should provide a near perfect example of myth making by white South Africans (well, Afrikaaners).

Boers were not put in the first concentration camps (I have researched it). The term was borrowed from the 'reconcentration camps' used by the Spanish in Cuba in the 1895-98 war of independence. The term was freely used in the US press and crept into English via that route. The idea of removing civilian populations is, of course, is much older.

I'm also very suspicious of the 20% figure. As you have focused on Boers its safe to assume you aren't counting the 20,000 or so black Africans who died in similar camps. That leaves about 26,000 unfortunate Boers who perished. A 20% death rate means there were only 130,000 Boers in both Republics. This seems pretty low, though I'll happily look at sources that suggest otherwise. That doesn't lessen the horror of what happened, but it does suggest a bit of exaggeration.

Then there are the other numbers. There were not '450,000 Professional British soldiers' by any reasonable measure. Most of the soldiers who served in the British Army or the various Colonial contingents were volunteers with minimal training. Sure, they got paid, but that was no guarantee of quality. There were also more than 30,000 Boers. Quite a few more, in fact. Again, this does not diminish the spectacular results they achieved against overwhelming odds, but the monkeying with statistics says something about the purpose of the story.

I'm not accusing you, but making a point about the stories you were told.

You have unintentionally made a valuable contribution to this discussion. Thanks for giving us a real, live example of how a defeated white population can create its own mythology and use that to buttress a dictatorial & racially segregated state.

[JAD_333]

Bannon's focus has always been "reviving" America's industrial strength and its preeminence in trade. Trump's "Make America Great Again" campaign, which translates to the same thing, is what drew Bannon to him in the first place and Trump to him. So, Bannon's departure from the White House will not fundamentally alter Trump's direction in this regard. It may, however, weaken Trump's ability to articulate his vision as he struggles to implement it.

I think Bannon is taking one for the boss here. His hulking presence, scabby skin, and disheveled appearance gave him the appearance of an evil force. He had become too much of a lightening rod for critics looking for someone to blame for Trump's behavior. But all those critics and politicians who urged Trump to dump Bannon will not get a chastened Trump. Probably the best thing to come out of Bannon's departure will be a solidification of Kelly's control of the White House staff. But Kelly still has his work cut out for him. Trump is not going to be happy sitting quietly in his office alone with the door closed.

[tbm3fan]

I'm starting to lose track of whose who in White House. Do they publish a daily organization chart anywhere?

You can use this for starters and grease pencil in new people or X them out.. Now about Conway...

[zraver]

If depictions of historical slave owners bothers you that much I'd be more than happy to take all your $1, $2, $10, $20, $100 bills from you and properly dispose of them.

Factually incorrect, Benjamin Franklin was an abolitionist. All white supremacist, send me your $100 that depict a man who believed in equal rights. I'll also take your $50's, without Grant, Blacks would have remained in bondage.

[TopHatter]

Factually incorrect, Benjamin Franklin was an abolitionist. All white supremacist, send me your $100 that depict a man who believed in equal rights. I'll also take your $50's, without Grant, Blacks would have remained in bondage.

Factually correct. Benjamin Franklin was a slave owner.

"Almost all of our country's founding fathers owned slaves at one time or another, including Benjamin Franklin.

Franklin owned two slaves, George and King, who worked as personal servants, and his newspaper, the Pennsylvania Gazette, commonly ran notices involving the sale or purchase of slaves and contracts for indentured laborers." Link

He changed his views later in life and becamea an abolitionist, but Benjamin Franklin was indeed a slave owner at one point.

This whole "slave owners on currency vs Confederates on statues" thing is a load of bullshit in any case. Just another case of false moral equivalency.

[GVChamp]

If I may ask... if you destroy all that offends you. If There is no statues left. What do you teach your children? If you kill history then how could they learn from it? How do you make sense of your past if you destroy it? Mankind, our technology, our everything, is based on accumulative knowledge... some bad and some good.

My kids will probably learn about history the same way I did: books and Wikipedia.

[antimony]

The point is not whether the founding fathers owned slaves or not, the point is how they moved with the times. When the realization came that owning another human being was wrong, the confederates kept on going

[JAD_333]

Condoleezza Rice makes the case against sanitizing history better than any I've heard so far.

[tbm3fan]

Condoleezza Rice makes the case against sanitizing history better than any I've heard so far.

I agree with Rice that they were men of their times and they should be used to demonstrate history right and wrong.

I do not agree with the interviewer who is trying to change the subject from Confederate statues over to the first eight Presidents being slave owners. He did it twice no less. If I had no idea about a Civil War and just came into this interview by chance I would think it was about the first eight of nine being slave owners and that was all. The interviewer is being disingenuous by asking about taking down their statues and not once mentioning what started it all... Confederate statues. Just like "The Lost Cause" scenario in that the war started over righteous state' rights and not over evil slavery.

[Guest]

You can use this for starters and grease pencil in new people or X them out.. Now about Conway...

The only that i think is properly depicted is the Bannon's camp: The isolationists
vs.
The globalist: McMaster, Cohn, Mattis etc.

i prefer the second team: the devil that we know, the good old hawks with some pro-growth democratic blood (Cohn)

[antimony]

I agree with Rice that they were men of their times and they should be used to demonstrate history right and wrong.

I do not agree with the interviewer who is trying to change the subject from Confederate statues over to the first eight Presidents being slave owners. He did it twice no less. If I had no idea about a Civil War and just came into this interview by chance I would think it was about the first eight of nine being slave owners and that was all. The interviewer is being disingenuous by asking about taking down their statues and not once mentioning what started it all... Confederate statues. Just like "The Lost Cause" scenario in that the war started over righteous state' rights and not over evil slavery.

Its Fox and Friends, what would you expect

[Bigfella]

Good example today of how hard Trump has made things for himself. He gave a pretty good speech on Afghanistan. Considered policy decision & some fine sentiments. The sort of thing people expect from Presidents & the sort of thing Trump should have been doing from day 1.

Of course, life in Trumpworld is never so easy. After the rolling disaster of the past few weeks the positive sentiments here will fall on deaf ears. Too little too late. The considered policy is to do something no one really wants - more resources in Afghanistan - even if it is entirely defensible. It won't help him much with moderates or Dems and it might actually hurt him among some of the isolationists who thought he might be their champion. Its also going to hurt him with women. At best this shores him up a bit with mainstream male GOP voters.

If he'd made this announcement early on, before all the chaos & self sabotage, it would have been something to hold up as an example of an inexperienced President learning to make considered policy with the help of qualified advisers. A piece of tone setting. At this point it isn't going to help him in the slightest. He needs to keep doing stuff like this every week until the mid-terms if he wants to keep that GOP majority.

[Albany Rifles]

In the midst of this military push the State Department is shuttering the office which was responsible for working Astan & Pak issues and concerns. We are going at this with only a hammer at a time when we should be doing much more on the diplomatic and less on the military approach.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/w...n.html?mcubz=0

[snapper]

No Ambassador in Kabul - or South Korea for that matter. While I am sure the acting Charges d'Affairs can fulfill the roles it is somewhat remiss surely to not have your own accredited appointed representative to explain your view before taking action. Nor this even a undersecretary of State for the region appointed yet... You Foreign Office is a hollowed out shell and Tillerson largely sidelined according to rumour.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Attacking the media for its “very unfair” coverage of Monday’s solar eclipse, Donald J. Trump said on Saturday that the sun was equally to blame for blocking the moon.

“The fake news is covering the eclipse from the sun’s side instead of the moon’s side, but if you look at it from the moon’s side the sun is blocking the moon’s side,” he said. “There are so many sides you can’t count all the sides.”

Additionally, Trump tore into the sun itself, calling it a “showboat” for its role in the solar eclipse.

“The sun thinks the world revolves around it,” Trump said. “Sad.”

Trump said the sun was a “big problem” that his predecessor, Barack Obama, did nothing to solve, but that that situation was about to change.

“It will be handled—we handle everything,” Trump said, adding that a preëmptive military strike on the sun was “very much on the table.”

[tbm3fan]

Amateur hour all year long...