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  • Ronnie Biggs

    I have mixed thoughts about this guy ,ok they stole money that was going to be burnt , but the train driver died , was it because of the injuries sustained at the time to later kill him ?? The fact he was livin the high life and putting up the 2 fingers at Jack Slipper makes him out to be a likeable scally , who only wanted to come home for free health treatment , he should IMO , have stayed where he was .But now it looks like justice has seen to be done .But it also shows the arrogance of the man to think he could fly in to UK and wander down to the pub for a pint ;)

    Ronnie Biggs, notorious for his role in Britain's 1963 Great Train Robbery and 35 years as a celebrity fugitive, was released from custody Friday to spend his dying days in freedom.

    Ronnie Biggs played a minor role in the hold-up but was jailed for 30 years in 1964

    Biggs, now seriously ill in hospital, was handed a copy of his licence conditions and signed his release papers the day before he turns 80 -- Saturday also marking 46 years to the day since the infamous heist.

    The Ministry of Justice confirmed that the prison staff watching him in the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital, where he is being treated for severe pneumonia, have now left his bedside.

    "His licence conditions were formally signed off," a ministry spokeswoman for told AFP. "The prison staff who were in attendance before will have left the hospital now."

    A series of strokes has also left Biggs bedridden and unable to speak, eat or walk. Though he is now at liberty, he is unlikely to be moved from hospital for a week at the very least because he requires minor surgery.

    In a U-turn, Justice Secretary Jack Straw announced Thursday that Biggs, jailed in 2001 after giving himself up, was being released on compassionate grounds because his condition had deteriorated and was unlikely to improve.

    His son Michael emerged from the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital clutching his father's release papers.

    "My father is now a free man," he told reporters.

    "My father signed it himself which is pretty amazing because he's not really capable of writing so to actually see my father trying to scribble his name was a very special moment.

    "It's a little scribble but it means a lot.

    "Regardless of the fact that my father is very ill, he still has a little bit of a sense of humour so my father shook hands with all the prison guards."

    He added: "My father will now -- depending on how long he survives -- he is retiring completely from public life.

    "There is absolutely no chance of seeing my father dancing in the West End (London's entertainment district) with a couple of girls around him. He won't be driving fast cars or having a great time."

    Straw had last month rejected Biggs's application for parole on the grounds that the robber was "wholly unrepentant" about his crimes but he said the decision on a compassionate release was based on "different considerations."

    "The medical evidence clearly shows that Mr Biggs is very ill and that his condition has deteriorated recently, culminating in his re-admission to hospital. His condition is not expected to improve," Straw said.

    The infamous Great Train Robbery saw a 15-strong gang hold up a Glasgow to London mail train and make off with 2.6 million pounds, a huge sum at the time, at a railway bridge north of London.

    Most of the cash was never found. The train driver, Jack Mills, was hit on the head during the robbery and died seven years later without ever making a full recovery.

    Biggs played a minor role in the hold-up but was jailed for 30 years in 1964. He subsequently escaped by scaling a prison wall and jumping onto the roof of a furniture van.

    Gang leader Bruce Reynolds told Sky News television: "I'm overjoyed for Ronnie, and certainly overjoyed for Michael, who's worked tirelessly to get his father released from prison.

    "It falls in line with the majority of time served by the rest of the team that committed the Great Train Robbery."

    On the run for decades, Biggs fled to France, where he had plastic surgery, and Spain before heading to Australia. But he eventually settled in Brazil, where he was often pictured partying in British newspapers.

    Biggs beat British extradition requests because he had a Brazilian dependant, his young son Michael, by his Brazilian girlfriend.

    He nevertheless handed himself over to British authorities in 2001 amid a blaze of publicity.

    Biggs said he wanted to enjoy a pint of beer in an English seaside pub before he died -- but he was sent back to jail to serve out the rest of his sentence

  • #2
    Originally posted by tankie View Post
    I have mixed thoughts about this guy ,ok they stole money that was going to be burnt , but the train driver died , was it because of the injuries sustained at the time to later kill him ?? The fact he was livin the high life and putting up the 2 fingers at Jack Slipper makes him out to be a likeable scally , who only wanted to come home for free health treatment , he should IMO , have stayed where he was .But now it looks like justice has seen to be done .But it also shows the arrogance of the man to think he could fly in to UK and wander down to the pub for a pint ;)
    Agreed.... although on the plus side the prison service will be saving money. I would have denied him the luxury of his last days in freedom though, but thats just me.

    Like you if I were him I would have stayed in Brazil, with the money he got from the robbery he could have brought the pub to him.... then wait for a rainy day and wallah. Just like the real thing.
    Nulli Secundus
    People always talk of dying for their country, and never of making the other bastard die for his

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    • #3
      Jack Mills, the driver died years later from leukaemia. But he was a victim.

      Biggs escaped from the pokey and gave the Government the finger for 30 odd yrs. He lived the good life on the run and even made trips back to Blighty and Spain to be with the other miscreants that plague our world. He returned to the UK because Brazil didn't want anything else to do with him. He was/is ill and he knew he would be fast tracked if he was in jail. He expected to serve a couple of years but he was sorely mistaken. I have no sympathy whatsoever for him and let's hope he does not cost the public purse too much money for too long.

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      • #4
        He's a criminal who took what was not his, and ruined at least one man's life - the train driver never worked after the incident, even if he did die of leukaemia. Hitting someone over the head with an iron bar is lethal force. He decided that doing the time for his crime was beneath him, ran away, and still hasn't shown any remorse, [/i]even as he shamelessly slinked back to the UK for his much-fabled seaside pint and, probably, medical care[/i]. No sympathy whatsoever from me, and unfortunately he was released when he should have died in prison.
        HD Ready?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HistoricalDavid View Post
          He's a criminal who took what was not his, and ruined at least one man's life - the train driver never worked after the incident, even if he did die of leukaemia. Hitting someone over the head with an iron bar is lethal force. He decided that doing the time for his crime was beneath him, ran away, and still hasn't shown any remorse, [/i]even as he shamelessly slinked back to the UK for his much-fabled seaside pint and, probably, medical care[/i]. No sympathy whatsoever from me, and unfortunately he was released when he should have died in prison.
          Guess that's the first time that we share an opinion.

          Covered all the bases.

          Tony
          Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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          • #6
            Er cheers, I didn't know I posted enough nowadays for you to agree or disagree, but thanks anyway...
            HD Ready?

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            • #7
              From the telegraph .




              Write anything critical about Ronnie Biggs, the great Train Robber who celebrated his 80th birthday on Saturday as a free man after Justice Secretary Jack Straw released him "on compassionate grounds", and you'll get a similar reaction from a certain quarter of society.

              When I wrote about Biggs on his release last week in my blog, someone called Maria del Medico (from Brazil?) responded: "He is a wonderful, intelligent, kind, thoughtful and full-of-love man who would be deeply distressed by your article if he read it. May God forgive you."

              May He do so indeed. But here I go again, offering an alternative view to the claim that ol' Biggsie was a diamond geezer, who never dun no 'arm, or at least was a loveable rogue from a more romantic age of cops and robbers. It is that Biggs is a monumental shyster, who used and abused those closest to him, laying waste to lives other than his in a long career committed to serving his own narrow selfishness.

              And he was at it again at the weekend, posing for photographs at his birthday celebrations, like some national treasure, rather than the armed robber and fugitive from justice that is the reality.

              His mouth lolls open to reveal a lifeless tongue, but he doesn't look too bad. Actually, I've no doubt that he is seriously ill. And his lawyer, Giovanni Di Stefano, who could have come from Central Casting, tells us that "he will die sooner rather than later". But the pictures still tell us that, whatever suffering he has caused others and is now suffering himself, Biggs has got away again. And this time he's having the last laugh.

              But it's the other person in the family pictures that intrigues me. I'd like to know a great deal more about Biggs's son, Michael. He is an extraordinary, if enigmatic, young man. He has apparently and inexplicably stood by his father, despite the old man's record of rejecting and exploiting him and, to any outside observer, doing his damnedest to ruin his son's life.

              Let's look at the record. When Biggs was arrested by Slipper of the Yard in Brazil in 1974, he first told Michael's mother, Raimunda Rothen, an exotic dancer, to abort her baby, because he was "going down for a very long time". When Biggs learnt that the baby was his means of resisting extradition, he gleefully reversed that decision.

              Then, when Biggs was kidnapped by bounty hunters in the Eighties, he let it be known that "Mikey" was anyway not really his son and that the whole paternity thing had been a charade to avoid extradition. Charming.

              Meanwhile, Michael subsidised his father's self-imposed exile with a career as a child pop star. He made money and his father blew it. Finally, Michael risked losing his partner and baby daughter when he brought Biggs back to Britain in 2001, to campaign for his parole.

              I want to know what Michael's motives were and are for his devotion to the old git. Michael has only ever said, in answer, that he loves his dad. I think we have to accept that. But one wouldn't have to be over-cynical to surmise that Biggs had more to offer than the joys of filial loyalty. Dad was Michael's ticket to British citizenship.

              Raimunda walked out when Michael was a baby, apparently because she couldn't forgive Biggs for lying to her. Evidently, she came around, because she married Biggs in Belmarsh prison in 2002. A fortnight later, Michael had his British passport.

              But that still doesn't explain the years of unwavering and unconditional commitment, the tears when he speaks of his father and his continuing presence at his side to the end. We surely have to concede that the passport was a bonus, not the purpose.

              After his mother left for Europe, the infant Michael was brought up by Biggs alone in Brazil. In a tale that has the makings of a movie, he changed his nappies and, Michael tells us, his father taught him right from wrong. We might need to take a deep breath at that last notion, but again we have to look at the evidence. And Michael seems more than sound; he is honest, articulate and likeable.

              That showed when Biggs was released last week and the armed guards left his bedside. Michael said his father was "free for the first time since 1963", implying that he was always a prisoner of his fugitive status, as he feigned the good life on the run on the beaches of the southern hemisphere.

              One is forced to concede that there may be something deeply spiritual about Michael Biggs. Indeed, he speaks of this weird bit of freedom at the end Ronnie's life meaning a lot to his family "spiritually", adding that he hopes "the real minister for justice will grant my father some extra time". It is clearly this spiritual strength that has sustained Michael through all the traumas that his father has inflicted on him.

              In one sense, all Biggs has to do now is to die. It's the least he can do by Michael. To last too long as a free man would be taking the mickey (admittedly something that Biggs has made an art form). And, anyway, Michael seems to know now that neither of them will be truly free until the old man is dead.

              Biggs could have ended Michael's life before it began and has since done his best to ruin it. But Michael's refusal to abandon his father to his fate is of huge credit to him, a polar contrast to the self-serving cynicism of Biggs Senior.

              Biggs was (and it seems appropriate to start using the past tense) a nasty petty criminal. There is no evidence that he thought about anyone but himself before or after the Great Train Robbery, the violence of which broke the life of the train driver, Jack Mills, and his family. But no one is the sum total of only one event in their life, however dreadful, and if Biggs produced one good thing in his it appears to be Michael, who offers his father some dignity and redemption at the last.

              In the funereal circus that will inevitably follow the demise of the pathetic figure of his father, the extraordinary story of the transforming love of the son must not be lost

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              • #8
                I couldn't really care less what some woman from Brazil or Kathmandu writes about him, the fact is he should have done his time. Then as a reformed member of society he could have choosen how he wanted to live the rest of his life.

                The fact that he returned to the UK for a freebie and has now been released tells me one thing, cheers easy Britain has been had yet again.

                Tony
                Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by toemag View Post
                  I couldn't really care less what some woman from Brazil or Kathmandu writes about him, the fact is he should have done his time. Then as a reformed member of society he could have choosen how he wanted to live the rest of his life.

                  The fact that he returned to the UK for a freebie and has now been released tells me one thing, cheers easy Britain has been had yet again.

                  Tony
                  Agreed Tony , i found it strange that his son who was kicked in the gonads severalteen times by mr selfish , that he would carry on fighting his corner .

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                  • #10
                    Maria del Medico (from Brazil?) responded: "He is a wonderful, intelligent, kind, thoughtful and full-of-love man who would be deeply distressed by your article if he read it. May God forgive you."



                    LMFAO!
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tankie View Post
                      Agreed Tony , i found it strange that his son who was kicked in the gonads severalteen times by mr selfish , that he would carry on fighting his corner .
                      Blood is thicker than water.

                      Tony
                      Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by toemag View Post
                        Blood is thicker than water.

                        Tony
                        Thats true , but it seems daddy was/is a leach ,and sonny boy the host , and you can as the saying goes , choose your friends but are stuck with relatives , but even then you can wash your hands of them as well . I HAVE .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tankie View Post
                          Thats true , but it seems daddy was/is a leach ,and sonny boy the host , and you can as the saying goes , choose your friends but are stuck with relatives , but even then you can wash your hands of them as well . I HAVE .
                          Me 2 mucker, Germanys far enough away to keep them at bay ;).

                          Tony
                          Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

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                          • #14
                            My view is that at no time has, Biggs stated any remorse for his actions during the robbery, therefore he should die in prison.

                            However, since the British Prison Service is not in a position to handle the ever increasing ageing prison population, then until they have such provision, there will be a unofficial parole system. As it becomes time when they require 24 hour attention, then prisoners with life sentences will be released into NHS care.

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                            • #15
                              Which one of the gang actually hit the old boy in the train?

                              Was it Briggs himself? (Biggs even)
                              Last edited by DragoonGuard; 11 Aug 09,, 20:46.
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