Bad day for US troops over here!

[durtyburd]

There would be no terrorists in Iraq if the US hadn't illegally deposed the legitimate sovereign government of Iraq in the first place.

Let's face it, the American people have been duped. George Bush intended to invade Iraq long before the world trade center attacks of 9-11-01 occurred. When those attacks happened, Bush and his henchmen decided to lie to everyone and attempt to connect the 9-11 attacks to Iraq in order to justify such an invasion.

Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks of 9-11, and anyone who says otherwise is a LIAR. Bush is a liar; Cheney is a liar. They should both be brought up on treason charges.

Bush used the 9-11 attacks to justify an invasion of Iraq while letting al qaeda, the true culprits behind 9-11, escape justice in the mountains of Pakistan. It is quite clear that Bush wanted to invade Iraq since before he ever became president. Even if 9-11 hadn't happened, Bush would have simply found another excuse to launch the illegal invasion of a sovereign state.

These conditions lead many people to speculate that Bush allowed the attacks of 9-11 to happen in order to garner public support for an invasion of Iraq.

Now, America is stuck in a Babylonian quagmire. Thousands of Americans have died...hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have died. Bush and his henchmen are no closer to their goal of stealing the Iraqi people's oil than they were before the invasion. The rest of the world almost unanimously despises the United States now. The American flag is spat upon by people throughout the world these days. More importantly, the US has lost all credibility.

After stealing the 2000 election by rigging the vote in Florida, Bush and his henchmen have done everything in their power to weaken America diplomatically.

The US is on its way to becoming a pariah state, thanks to Bush and his henchmen.

[durtyburd]

Not only did Bush make up a lie to justify invading Iraq in order to acquire a middle eastern supply of oil, but he has failed to acquire that supply of oil.

I guarantee that Iraq will never be a US trade partner. When it is all said and done and the US is out of Iraq, whatever entity controls Iraq will never conduct business with the US. In the long run, the US invasion and occupation of Iraq will be viewed by Iraqi's as a colonial domination. To the people of the middle east, the US will be regarded as yet another colonial power that attempted to subdue and dominate the region for economic gain.

Basically, the US occupation of Iraq will be viewed no differently than the French and British occupations of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Congratulations to George W Bush; he has managed to undermine the United State's reputation as a country without colonial ambitions. Now the American adventure in Iraq will be viewed no differently than the French and British attempts to subdue the middle east in the past.

Thank you, George Bush, for ruining my country's reputation.

[sappersgt]

In the heat off battle

Then sirs,

how do you control battle rage? How do you keep soldiers from getting the blood-lust for revenge?

Discipline, clear orders and refraining from dehumanizing the enemy. Discipline is important. You know when your men are in a killing mood. Giving clear orders that you want prisoners (and having those orders repeated back to you) insures that you'll get them. Sometimes they won't like it but they'll do it anyways. That's discipline.

Don't dehumanize the enemy. It's easier to kill people if you don't consider them human. In practice this means no mutilation or disrespecting enemy dead (no posing or pissing on corpses). Just a good idea anyways. A truly amazing percentage of enemy corpses were booby trapped. You don't want to lose a man for such a stupid reason. SOP is to lasso a convenient appendage and move the body from a safe distance. Then you can check for useful intelligence.

No souvenirs! I wouldn't allow trophies, ears, fingers, etc. When they can't show them off they won't take them.

[Maxor]

This is a Tragedy I am personally still for cold hearted overwhelming retrobution in exchange for attacks and atrocities but thats my mind. I can't believe that our iraqi partners would be as lax in security as proported though after the way they have been hit at various instances.

I also wonder if I should go through and dispute point by point everything that durtyburd stated, I agree that the management of this conflict has been mismanaged but no senior administration officail ever stated that iraq was responsible for 9-11 nor that 9-11 was the reason for invading iraq. I don't really feel that this thread is appropriate for this conversation however.

[lemontree]

Then sirs,

how do you control battle rage? How do you keep soldiers from getting the blood-lust for revenge?

Brig. Ray, sir has answered your question, but just to add...
A good commander will use battle rage to ensure victory and a bad one will cause humongous blunders, eg. Mai Lai massacre, or the butchery in East Pakistan in March 1971 at the Military hospital and EB Regimental Center.

The positive aspect of battle rage is if a well respected/ loved comrade/commander is downed the rage is the troops turns the tide of the battle into victory. eg. My coursemate, Maj P Acharya (Archie as we called him) was commanding 'A' company in 2 Rajpurana Rifles, and his company officer Lt Vijayant Thapar, were killed during the battle of Tololing (Kargil June 1999). Their deaths charged up the troops to such an extent that instead of falling is disarray, the company avenged their deaths by capturing the target (Knoll in Black rock area). It was a major foot hold for the Northern Command, that started the collapse of subsequent occupied ridges.

[Tiger]

Lemontree has brought out the aspect of what battle rage can do.

The mind cannot get blocked when the chips are down.

Only a cool mind can achieve the desired result.

Rage in any field of life will always encourage errors in judgement.

[Shek]

There would be no terrorists in Iraq if the US hadn't illegally deposed the legitimate sovereign government of Iraq in the first place.

Let's face it, the American people have been duped. George Bush intended to invade Iraq long before the world trade center attacks of 9-11-01 occurred. When those attacks happened, Bush and his henchmen decided to lie to everyone and attempt to connect the 9-11 attacks to Iraq in order to justify such an invasion.

Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks of 9-11, and anyone who says otherwise is a LIAR. Bush is a liar; Cheney is a liar. They should both be brought up on treason charges.

Bush used the 9-11 attacks to justify an invasion of Iraq while letting al qaeda, the true culprits behind 9-11, escape justice in the mountains of Pakistan. It is quite clear that Bush wanted to invade Iraq since before he ever became president. Even if 9-11 hadn't happened, Bush would have simply found another excuse to launch the illegal invasion of a sovereign state.

These conditions lead many people to speculate that Bush allowed the attacks of 9-11 to happen in order to garner public support for an invasion of Iraq.

Now, America is stuck in a Babylonian quagmire. Thousands of Americans have died...hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's have died. Bush and his henchmen are no closer to their goal of stealing the Iraqi people's oil than they were before the invasion. The rest of the world almost unanimously despises the United States now. The American flag is spat upon by people throughout the world these days. More importantly, the US has lost all credibility.

After stealing the 2000 election by rigging the vote in Florida, Bush and his henchmen have done everything in their power to weaken America diplomatically.

The US is on its way to becoming a pariah state, thanks to Bush and his henchmen.

Wow, a string of posts almost wholly unsubstantiated by anything other than emotion.

[Tiger]

Dirtybird,

You must have suffered a lot in this war and so you are very bitter.

There are many things that have gone wrong, but I wonder if all what you have written are true.