Dear Leader Goes for a Cruise: KPN's Romeo Class Subs

[zraver]

any "whooshing" lowers the chances of the AWO thinking that it's a biologic.... :)

it has an open window....

[gf0012-aust]

it has an open window....

aerodynamics and fluid mechanics are kissing cousins. water going over a vertical surface behaves like a reynolds effect

turbulent flow = noise
noise = death

[Bigfella]

aerodynamics and fluid mechanics are kissing cousins. water going over a vertical surface behaves like a reynolds effect

turbulent flow = noise
noise = death

A museum piece like this won't even see the platform that sinks it.

[gf0012-aust]

A museum piece like this won't even see the platform that sinks it.

they were never competitive against oberons or daphnes - they've got no hope against modern subs

[desertswo]

aerodynamics and fluid mechanics are kissing cousins. water going over a vertical surface behaves like a reynolds effect

turbulent flow = noise
noise = death

I'll say! Especially with all those limber holes cut into the superstructure. Even a half-arsed surface ASW platform could go passive and find them with both hands over their ears.

[Squirrel]

This explains so much...

[SteveDaPirate]

I'll say! Especially with all those limber holes cut into the superstructure. Even a half-arsed surface ASW platform could go passive and find them with both hands over their ears.

I think their only real hope of being useful in a conflict would be to sit still in a popular shipping area and hope something wanders into torpedo range before they have to surface and vent air/recharge batteries. I wonder how the guys on board feel about being a glorified CAPTOR mine?

[toffee]

Dear leader's romeo was made in China?

[ace16807]

Dear leader's romeo was made in China?

I'm not very familiar with KPN ORBAT, but a quick cross reference indicates that the PRC-built Romeos are all stationed in the West Sea Fleet and this particular Romeo in question is subordinate to an East Sea Fleet unit. That being said, all KPN Romeos, even if constructed in the DPRK, are made of Chinese parts.

[Stitch]

I think their only real hope of being useful in a conflict would be to sit still in a popular shipping area and hope something wanders into torpedo range before they have to surface and vent air/recharge batteries. I wonder how the guys on board feel about being a glorified CAPTOR mine?

Can you "bottom" a Romeo? That's a fairly effective low-tech tactic, but they might have to wait a while . . . .

[SteveDaPirate]

Can you "bottom" a Romeo? That's a fairly effective low-tech tactic, but they might have to wait a while . . . .

I would think it would be possible assuming the area is shallow enough, but the "bottom" in question might have some interesting effects on such an operation. If it is muddy or sandy the sub could sink in and have trouble getting off the bottom again. Hovering near the bottom without quite touching can leave a sub vulnerable to being smashed into rocks on the floor should the weather turn nasty. Another potential danger near the sea floor is the amount of debris floating around waiting to be sucked into piping systems. Impellers don't like sand.

The other concern with a diesel sub is that time spent sitting on the bottom is limited to what your battery and air supplies will allow. They would probably have to surface every night and run their engines to recharge the batteries and purge excess carbon dioxide.

I also wonder about the ability of an old Romeo to hide/escape after firing a torpedo. I suspect that any ROK destroyer in the area would kill the Romeo soon after it revealed its position by firing.

[desertswo]

I would think it would be possible assuming the area is shallow enough, but the "bottom" in question might have some interesting effects on such an operation. If it is muddy or sandy the sub could sink in and have trouble getting off the bottom again. Hovering near the bottom without quite touching can leave a sub vulnerable to being smashed into rocks on the floor should the weather turn nasty. Another potential danger near the sea floor is the amount of debris floating around waiting to be sucked into piping systems. Impellers don't like sand.

The other concern with a diesel sub is that time spent sitting on the bottom is limited to what your battery and air supplies will allow. They would probably have to surface every night and run their engines to recharge the batteries and purge excess carbon dioxide.

I also wonder about the ability of an old Romeo to hide/escape after firing a torpedo. I suspect that any ROK destroyer in the area would kill the Romeo soon after it revealed its position by firing.

You could probably bottom a Romeo, but you did identify a number of concerns for any submarine (or any surface ship for that matter that is operating in shallow water) operating near the bottom. First of all, "hovering" as a ballistic missile submarine can do, is not something in a Romeo's bag of tricks, so throw that one out. Actually touching bottom does in fact lead to all sorts of issues, not the least of which is the suction of very thick mud keeping the ship stuck like a fly on fly paper. Last, but not least sucking stuff into various system heat exchangers can be a major problem, even if the system is secured. You can get crap shoved up into the sea chest and from there into the heat exchanger once the system is started up again. Can you say, "Conn, maneuvering, high lube oil temperature number one main engine!"? You may well have to if something like this gets fouled with sea life or mud.

[gf0012-aust]

and the russians and the chinese don't have recovery/rescue vessels to implement a rescue. last time the russians lost a sub it was the RN and the USN that offered assistance to rescue because they couldn't bring back their own people

[Squirrel]

I also wonder about the ability of an old Romeo to hide/escape after firing a torpedo. I suspect that any ROK destroyer in the area would kill the Romeo soon after it revealed its position by firing.

I understand that this is about a ROMEO class, but tactically, and tragically this wasn't the case for the CHENOAN and the YONO.

[zraver]

You could probably bottom a Romeo, but you did identify a number of concerns for any submarine (or any surface ship for that matter that is operating in shallow water) operating near the bottom. First of all, "hovering" as a ballistic missile submarine can do, is not something in a Romeo's bag of tricks

They should be able to station keep based on the current. get into say a 3 knot current and make speed for 3 knots and you are then "hovering". We do somethign simialr with ferrying and station holding during water rescues. Its also likely that the NORKS have very good submarine maps of the coastal areas where the Romeo will have its best chance of being effective. The coastal areas have enough noise and radar clutter to hide the sub from everything but active sonar and MAD devices. Remember a NORK sub sank a ROK warship with an old out dated torpedo.