Originally posted by jlvfr
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I'm not going to defend the Zumwalt's, I think that they've been a huge money sinkhole. However, there's a reason all those antennas and structures had to be added and you can't really stealth the antennas themselves. You need a big hunk of metal to receive and transmit data. These data links let everyone know the tactical picture - you have to know where to shoot all those missiles. Physics dictates that these antennas be in a certain shape for the most efficient reception/transmission. That also makes them dandy radar reflectors. They did try to mitigate this somewhat. If you look closely, the base of the comms are all nicely angled in a way to reflect radar waves away from the transmitter. The domes themselves are non-metallic (ie radar transparent), however the guts of each system are probably not optimized, but I truly do not know.
Perhaps the Navy could have spent another billion dollars in coming up with some gee whiz stealth design for each antenna plus a system that pulls each system inside the hull when not in use (I think they have some systems that actually do this.) However, all this would only be used on 3 ships - not an efficient use of limited funds. I think all those new Arleigh Burkes will make a much bigger impact on the Fleet and the money saved can go into maintenance and training.
Yeah, everything looks bolted on and it rather takes away from the aesthetic, which has been growing on me, but they didn't design them to look cool.
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Originally posted by JCT View PostI'm not going to defend the Zumwalt's, I think that they've been a huge money sinkhole. However, there's a reason all those antennas and structures had to be added and you can't really stealth the antennas themselves.
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostYeah, about that... I never understood this part of the ship's "sale pitch". Were these antenna supposed to obey some new law of physics?...
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Originally posted by JCT View PostI'm not going to defend the Zumwalt's, I think that they've been a huge money sinkhole. However, there's a reason all those antennas and structures had to be added and you can't really stealth the antennas themselves.
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Unless the objective of 'stealth' is to prevent your foes from locking onto your platform with a tracking radar, I never understood the reasoning behind trying to limit the radar signature of a ship, then broadcasting your position which can be detected by EW equipment from hundreds of miles away. If stealth is accompanied by the complete elimination of radiating equipment, then I guess you can hide like a submarine. Otherwise, it's like wearing black in a dark forest, and using a searchlight to look around. I think it makes a lot of sense for airplanes. Ships, not so much.
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Originally posted by thebard View PostUnless the objective of 'stealth' is to prevent your foes from locking onto your platform with a tracking radar, I never understood the reasoning behind trying to limit the radar signature of a ship, then broadcasting your position which can be detected by EW equipment from hundreds of miles away. If stealth is accompanied by the complete elimination of radiating equipment, then I guess you can hide like a submarine. Otherwise, it's like wearing black in a dark forest, and using a searchlight to look around. I think it makes a lot of sense for airplanes. Ships, not so much.
So the idea, afaik, is to try to get as close as possible undected before you feel you have you start emiting. Hence the atempt at stealth...
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Originally posted by thebard View PostUnless the objective of 'stealth' is to prevent your foes from locking onto your platform with a tracking radar, I never understood the reasoning behind trying to limit the radar signature of a ship, then broadcasting your position which can be detected by EW equipment from hundreds of miles away. If stealth is accompanied by the complete elimination of radiating equipment, then I guess you can hide like a submarine. Otherwise, it's like wearing black in a dark forest, and using a searchlight to look around. I think it makes a lot of sense for airplanes. Ships, not so much.
If you haven't read an account of NORPAC 82 it describes in broad strokes how the USN managed to hide an entire task force from the Soviets despite running simulated strikes against strategic sites and highly intensive searches by the Soviets.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-031.php
Stealth allows you to play even more games with your enemy to deceive them, which seems imminently worthwhile, particularly since the US has so much experience with stealth materials and shaping compared to the rest of the world.
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Originally posted by JA Boomer View PostWhat about with an advanced enclosed sensor/mast system such as on the LPD-17 class?
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Originally posted by thebard View PostYep, assuming you know where they are, since you can't use your radar. Doesn't that give them the same stealth advantage?
Imagine two men in a dark field, in a dark night, both with flashlights. Both will avoid using the flashlight as long as possible, to avoid getting spoted... so they quietly circle around, trying to see on hear or see something. If one has dark clothes, that one has a chance of getting a couple of meters closer to the other...
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Originally posted by jlvfr View PostYeah, that's what makes it interesting! :D
Imagine two men in a dark field, in a dark night, both with flashlights. Both will avoid using the flashlight as long as possible, to avoid getting spoted... so they quietly circle around, trying to see on hear or see something. If one has dark clothes, that one has a chance of getting a couple of meters closer to the other...
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Originally posted by JCT View PostYou definitely could do this, but it'd be more expensive. If you look at the LPDs, they still have all of these domes sticking up all over the place. If you go back to the The Drive article which kicked off this part of the discussion, they show a graphic from 2016 that pretty much looks like the Zumwalt today in it's "final, revised, and cheaper configuration".
those masts and sensors were to be 'stealth'd'.
adding in those external mounts defeats the whole purpose, but saves the cash.
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Originally posted by bfng3569 View Postadd a third person from a distance with a flash light with the ability to silently to talk to his friend who is moving closer to the other guy.....
This war is a heck of a dance...
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