Ask An Expert- Naval Forces

[desertswo]

Here's a random question. When a ship sinks or partially sinks and it is raised (usually after a year or so) what happens to the inside where it's been immersed in salt water? I've seen pics of the Lexington where they stupidly fill her compartments with water to keep her in place during a storm and she's doing BAD. Granted she stays like this for years but still. Any thoughts?

What "compartments" are they filling? The reason I ask is that the word "compartment" means something to you, but to Rusty and I, and the other contributors, it means something else entirely. For example, what you may be calling a compartment is actually a floodable void, designed to take on sea water for ballast and list control. You may also be talking about adding sea water to fuel oil storage tanks, or even make-up feed bottoms. Let's face it, Lexington isn't going anywhere operationally, so filling all of those various tanks is not a stupid idea.

However, if you are talking about filling manned spaces, that's another kettle of fish altogether. By far, the biggest problem with filling a space, let's say for argument, one of the fire rooms or engine rooms, is that everything electrical will be grounded, and useless until repaired or replaced. That is a very expensive proposition.

[85 gt kid]

Sorry desert im on my phone at work so i was trying to be short and sweet :fish:. But no theyre flooding manned spaces ( but not the machinery spaces if memory serves). I'll try and find the thread where i found that though.

[85 gt kid]

After 45 minutes of searching on my computer I didn't find the pic I was looking for (the pic that was saved to my phone that I erased :slap:) but I did find one thread from here that mentions it. Look for post #33. But yea I knew you could flood those voids and such but crew compartments :confu:.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...m-ships-3.html

[RustyBattleship]

Back to expansion joints just one more time.

Actually, I have to go back almost 60 years to remember various differences and/or similarities of all the classes of warships I have worked on.

Some ships (and I think the Fletchers were one of the classes) did not have an expansion joint amidships because the superstructure was built of two separate deckhouses. The "gap" in between (several feet on some ships) served as the main quarterdeck area for boarding and disembarking on the ship.

To allow passage for crewmen to go from fore to aft (or the other way around) there would be at least one "sliding" catwalk above.

[desertswo]

After 45 minutes of searching on my computer I didn't find the pic I was looking for (the pic that was saved to my phone that I erased :slap:) but I did find one thread from here that mentions it. Look for post #33. But yea I knew you could flood those voids and such but crew compartments :confu:.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/nav...m-ships-3.html

I read that. They aren't really flooding manned spaces. Fifth deck and below is all pump rooms, reefer flats, supply storerooms, and magazines. That's a lot of water to take on, but if that's what they have to do, then so be it.

[blidgepump]

Cassin Young .....

Back to expansion joints just one more time.

Actually, I have to go back almost 60 years to remember various differences and/or similarities of all the classes of warships I have worked on.

Some ships (and I think the Fletchers were one of the classes) did not have an expansion joint amidships because the superstructure was built of two separate deckhouses. The "gap" in between (several feet on some ships) served as the main quarterdeck area for boarding and disembarking on the ship.

To allow passage for crewmen to go from fore to aft (or the other way around) there would be at least one "sliding" catwalk above.

Late reply Mr. L.

I will place this objective on my list ( Locate the expansion joint) on a Fletcher - DD when I visit the Cassin Young next Summer. ;)

[desertswo]

Late reply Mr. L.

I will place this objective on my list ( Locate the expansion joint) on a Fletcher - DD when I visit the Cassin Young next Summer. ;)

Easiest way to find it is to go walking blindfolded or after dark without a flashlight. I swear to God, you'll stub your toe on it big as fecal matter!

[Fortesque]

Hi All,

Could someone in here please provide an interpretation of the flags displayed on the lead ship? I have tried Google but I'm unsure of the correct way to vocalise it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say something along the lines of course? starboard? zero?, zero? ****?.

Thanks in advance

The picture is from the 100 year commemorative anniversary of the first WWI convoys from Australia and New Zealand.

HMA Ships Stuart and Anzac, and JDS Kirisame take part in the symbolic convoy departure as part of the Albany Convoy Commemorative Event

[DonBelt]

"turn to starboard to 000" and when it is hauled down the maneuver will be executed.

[Fortesque]

Thank you sir.

[desertswo]

Hi All,

Could someone in here please provide an interpretation of the flags displayed on the lead ship? I have tried Google but I'm unsure of the correct way to vocalise it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say something along the lines of course? starboard? zero?, zero? ****?.

Thanks in advance

The picture is from the 100 year commemorative anniversary of the first WWI convoys from Australia and New Zealand.

"turn to starboard to 000" and when it is hauled down the maneuver will be executed.

Close but no cigar. The message is properly read as "Corpen Starboard 000." If it had been a "turn" to starboard, the word "turn" would have been used, and all ships would turn together, thereby transforming a line of column as seen in the photo into a line abreast to port. A "corpen" is a wheeling movement; in this case, each ship following the guide, by putting the rudder over at the same spot in the water that it did. In a line of column as pictured, the formation would start out as a line of column when the signal is executed, and remain in a line of column when the maneuver is completed. Had they been in a line abreast, that is a much more complicated maneuver requiring use of the good old maneuvering board, and each ship taking whatever course and speed is required to describe the "wheel" before assuming the new formation course and speed. The new formation remains a line abreast. Like so . . .



The reason for some confusion with regard to the final two pennants and their respective meanings is that they are the Third and Fourth Substitutes, in effect, repeating the "0" flag twice. DonBelt was correct when he said that the signal was executed when the flag hoist is hauled down.

[DonBelt]

Thanks for the clarification! Signals wasn't my specialty, but as a CIWS tech on a Sprucan I spent a lot of time on the signal bridge so I picked up a little bit.

[desertswo]

Thanks for the clarification! Signals wasn't my specialty, but as a CIWS tech on a Sprucan I spent a lot of time on the signal bridge so I picked up a little bit.

No worries. What's funny is that it's been 20 years since I last read a flag hoist, but I recognized that one immediately. I used to love formation maneuvering, which is something we don't do nearly enough of. It may no longer be necessary in terms of engagements with the enemy, but it still teaches maneuvering in close quarters like nothing else can. BTW, when doing a Corpen in a line of column, putting the rudder over at the exact point the guide did takes a bit of seaman's eye. You look for the "knuckle" in the water where his rudder literally swept to the desired angle. You can see it if you know what to look for; a sort of turbulence that is unlike that left by the screws, then you count off the seconds that your ship travels after the bow crosses that spot, to the appropriate time when you give the same order. It's a lot of mental evaluation of relative motion, but it works our pretty well. When you get astern of the guide again, you then make up for proper distance by speeding up or slowing down a bit, and of course adjusting the rudder to get back in his wake.

As far as the flag hoists themselves are concerned, people would be surprised to learn that signal flags are used about 70% of the time to transmit short tactical messages. It is, after all these years, still the most secure means of doing it.

[blidgepump]

Talking flags ......

My understanding of what I do not know about "Nelson's talking flags" just took a giant leap forward! :pop:
I have enough trouble keeping the Saturday afternooner's from ramming my pocket cruiser, aka "the right-of-way".
Having someone on the signal deck making up the hoists and then another fellow reading them, is extra cool in my book. ;)

[DonBelt]

It's too bad they discontinued the Signalman rate though, they gave it over to quartermasters. I guess that makes some sense to a degree since they are most closely involved with navigation.