Destroyers - Fletcher Class

[Boilermaker9]

Those that know the story of the USS Kidd will appreciate the 2 photos below. For those that do not know on 11 April 1945 during the battle for Okinawa she was among several destroyers providing support, when a Kamikaze came in and headed for the Uss Black, but flew over Black and hit the Kidd stbd side just below the main deck in #1 fireroom the plane stopped on top of the boilers and the bomb continued through the fireroom and out the port side hull. The bomb exploded outside of the hull. 38 Men killed and 55 injured. The images are of the damage to the Port side caused by the bomb. A far Cry from her looks today. and gives some perspective into what these ships endured during the war. Believe there is 2 straps placed transversely where the main deck patch is riveted to the main deck over #1 fireroom. I believe these were of stainless steel as they were very shiny when I tripped over them during my excursions at NISMD in the 1970's
I have a copy of the war damage report prepared by Naval shipyard Hunters point but it is 9 pages not sure one can post that much at one time, and the only 2 photos I have are the ones attached below. If someone thinks it is ok I will post the 9 pages

I am not sure if someone posted this before I have a copy of the

[Albany Rifles]

Thanks!

Both the Fletchers and the Cleveland/Independence Class ships benefited from the standardization of the plant configuration. Essentially the "new" plant layout was pioneered in the immediate predecessor Destroyer and Cruiser classes respectively Benson/Gleaves and St Louis (only two ships). Basically high pressure steam (about 600 psi) with Superheat and double reduction gears were now standard at this point.

More importantly perhaps these classes included an echeloned machinery space design which meant alternating boiler and engine rooms. So going forward to aft you had this arrangement; BR, ER, BR and then aft ER. This reduced the likelihood of one hit taking out the entire plant i.e. all the boilers or all the engines. Interestingly enough the Essex Class carriers also had this new alternating setup unlike the Yorktown (CV5) which had the boilers then all the engine rooms lineup. Shafts could be shorter in the Mid thirties thinking so that was one benefit of the older configuration.

Looks like to me the Independence just took advantage of the Turbine/Engine setup of the Benson Destroyers as they had about 25K horsepower each (50K total) while the slightly newer Fletchers and follow Sumner/Gearing Class had 30k (60K total) plants. So the Independence Class had 4 plants with about 100K horsepower.


Just prior and during WWII, the USN did a remarkable job of balancing improvements in design while leveraging production capacity and minimizing changeover disruption.


As a rule of thumb one could go steam over 25kts with half your boilers IF IF IF both engines were on the line!

Thanks guys

Learning a lot here!

[blidgepump]

New pictures ...

Thank you for posting those pictures of the USS KIDD.
The repairs to the hull and internal spaces from the IJN plane were extensive.
Attached is an artifact from that IJN attack displayed at the museum in Baton Rouge.

[Boilermaker9]

Attached is a Characteristics Card from the Uss Sigsbee DD502 dated Oct1945. A snippet of history and wealth of info about the ship. T Sigsbee had her stern blown off by a Kamikaze and survived NavSource has a number of images of the ship and the damage. http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/502.htm
When one looks at the damage to the stern you can't help but wonder how she survived. Sigsbee, Kidd, and all the others that survived to fight again are a estimate to to our industrial might and ship design. She was repaired and decommissioned in 1946 I think, stayed in reserve fleet till the mid 1970s when she was broken up. To think these ships were designed to last 20 minutes in battle! Incredible!

[Boilermaker9]

The image gives you some idea of the cramped crowded space the upper level/check level is on a fletcher destroyer. The gage glasses should be facing the camera. The check val is behind the camera man.[ATTACH]46158[/ATTACH]

Went through so images I took years ago and came across one of the Check Level of the USS Guadalcanal (LPH-7) which had 2 600 psi D type (uncontrolled superheat) boilers side by side, as I recall. I also believe the propulsion plant was around 20K SHP or somewhere there about, these boilers only had one furnace. Someone please Chime In if I am of the mark.

I had the occasion to board her for a survey. Any way I thought the image of the check level/upper level fireroom would give some perspective to the images bilgepump took of the Fletchers Check Level/Upper Level. The Fletchers, indeed all destroyers of the Fletcher era were crowded and cramped,hard to move around the spaces...The LPH image gives a whole new meaning to Check Level and garners new found respect for "destroyer man" who seemed the Fletchers I am not sure if the boilers are facing for or aft, so I cannot say which one is in the top section of the image as I was standing in front of the one next to it when I shot the photo. The blue handled valve wheels coming through the deck plates next to the ladder in the center of the image are the feed check valves. The first one, just below center of image is the manual check valve, it also has a large gear and a reach rod with a smaller gear mating to it, so the fireman or top watch can check water from the lower level should the ABC fail. The other one above it in the image is the auto check valve. The LPH of the time had a rudimentary pneumatic ABC System (automatic Boiler Control) so boiler feed and combustion were automatically controlled.

Any way by comparison to the Fletcher Check Level, one could build a house on the LPH Check Level don't you think?

[blidgepump]

Broadway on an Iowa Class....

Yes in deedy BM9, there is enough room there to support a family of 12 for sure.

Your recital offers this "Circa 1952" Unclassified USN B & W film discussing "Living Conditions" on a Fletcher Class -DD.
It was posted on Facebook in another Fletcher discussion group, and certainly addresses the current emphasis on the WAB thread underway. Enjoy!
https://www.facebook.com/AllMilitary...location=group

[Boilermaker9]

Very interesting film. From the throttleman cranking the ahead throttle and the burnerman batting burners to support the demand for steam however what I found interesting is the crew mess doubled as fwd berthing and in order to eat the crew had to get up ant trice up before the messcooks could set up for chow! Of course the galley was on the main deck and the serving line just aft of the mess hall so the mess cooks had to get from the galley to the serving line! Emagine the difficulty in rough seas! Must have taken a special set of sea legs to accomplish that journey intact!

[Albany Rifles]

When one looks at the damage to the stern you can't help but wonder how she survived. Sigsbee, Kidd, and all the others that survived to fight again are a estimate to to our industrial might and ship design. She was repaired and decommissioned in 1946 I think, stayed in reserve fleet till the mid 1970s when she was broken up. To think these ships were designed to last 20 minutes in battle! Incredible!

I believe not just industrial might and ship design. I believe a tremendous amount is due to the dedication and expertise of the damage control teams across the Navy. I don't need to tell you Bluejackets that but I have to say as an old Army guy I am in awe of the damage our vessels took and the abilities of their dedicated crews to keep the ships afloat and often times back into the fight.

Just jaw dropping!

[Boilermaker9]

I believe not just industrial might and ship design. I believe a tremendous amount is due to the dedication and expertise of the damage control teams across the Navy. I don't need to tell you Bluejackets that but I have to say as an old Army guy I am in awe of the damage our vessels took and the abilities of their dedicated crews to keep the ships afloat and often times back into the fight.

Just jaw dropping!

Thanks for pointing that out, Albany Rifles, as I was negligent in that regard, I did not mean to slight the sailors that through their training, expertise sheer willpower, and dedication saved these ships, and many lives. My intention was to show that the American Industrial might supplied the armed forces with some pretty ausome machines of which the Fletchers were one of many, with which the solder airman and sailor went on to win the war, selflessly. My dad came home from ww2 and never talked about it. What ever happened went to his grave with him in 2002. I guess to him and to most of his generation it was his duty, his job and when it was done moved on not expecting a thing! I really don’t know why but that is my take on it. Along with the ships, tanks guns and planes those men and women were. A part of a great generation!

[Albany Rifles]

Thanks for pointing that out, Albany Rifles, as I was negligent in that regard, I did not mean to slight the sailors that through their training, expertise sheer willpower, and dedication saved these ships, and many lives. My intention was to show that the American Industrial might supplied the armed forces with some pretty ausome machines of which the Fletchers were one of many, with which the solder airman and sailor went on to win the war, selflessly. My dad came home from ww2 and never talked about it. What ever happened went to his grave with him in 2002. I guess to him and to most of his generation it was his duty, his job and when it was done moved on not expecting a thing! I really don’t know why but that is my take on it. Along with the ships, tanks guns and planes those men and women were. A part of a great generation!

Absolutely true. The production capacity of the US was just jaw dropping. As a serious student of World War 2 (my undergrad degree is on World War 2 History) it is stunning to realize what was produced. In 1944 alone the US produced over 88,000 aircraft! Hell, LSTs were built on the Ohio River!

And as for the DC skills, my Dad was at his battle station in the fireroom on the USS Cabot on 24 NOV 44 when she was hit and near missed by 2 kamikazes. The shock from the near hit ruptured a steam line and they lost electrical power. My Dad received a Bronze Star for his actions on DC that day. He crawled over pipes to get to a cut off valve which stopped the leak and restored power. He also helped 2 crewmates. He was 18! He said he could handle it because they were so well trained, from the Great Lakes all the way to his Chiefs and LPOs aboard ship.

I was lucky growing up that he and my uncle both were willing to talk of their service...especially my uncle who was a fighter pilot. I also used to ask all my friends' fathers about their service and most opened up. I was an annoying little shit!

[bbvet]

Albany Rifles wrote:

He said he could handle it because they were so well trained, from the Great Lakes all the way to his Chiefs and LPOs aboard ship.

I doubt if this could be said of the Navy today - esp. when we see these multiple major incidents, accidents, etc. - and almost all self-inflicted. Not MY NAVY that's for damn-sure!!!!

[Boilermaker9]

I feel in my own opinion, that the recent accidents were partially caused by lack of training and partially caused by lack of funding for training. Operative word funding which is real and present danger in the piece time navy. The government cutting back funding therefore the ships do not get underway for training. I believe now or this year there is more funding available so perhaps we will see less accidents. Hopefully None!

[blidgepump]

USS Walker, DD-517, another shipmate slips away...

Howard P. Payne, 93, of Carrollton, Missouri, passed away Friday, June 29, 2018, at Carroll House in Carrollton, Missouri.

Though my acquaintance with Howard was brief he was a lively gentleman who was kind of heart. I wanted to pause and remember him first as a member of our greatest generation and second as a sailor who served on a Fletcher Class- DD.

Howard was born on November 22, 1924, in Gallatin, Missouri, the son of Frank Frazier and Zepha Belle (Dearing) Payne. He attended school in Tucson, Arizona and the University of Arizona. Howard was inducted into the United States Navy on March 6, 1943, in Phoenix, Arizona. He was deployed on the NTS, San Diego, California, and the USS Walker.

USS Walker (DD-517), a Fletcher-class destroyer, was the second ship of the United States Navy to be named for Admiral John Grimes Walker (1835–1907). Walker was laid down on 31 August 1942 by the Bath Iron Works Corp., Bath, Maine; launched on 31 January 1943, sponsored by Miss Sarah C. Walker; and commissioned on 3 April 1943, Commander O. F. Gregor in command.

Howard completed Fire Control School in San Diego, California and Submarine School in New London, Connecticut. Howard had received the Victory Medal, Asiatic Pacific Medal, Philippine Liberation Medal, and the Good Conduct Medal. He was honorably discharged on November 2, 1946.

[bbvet]

BM9 wrote:

I feel in my own opinion, that the recent accidents were partially caused by lack of training and partially caused by lack of funding for training. Operative word funding which is real and present danger in the piece time navy. The government cutting back funding therefore the ships do not get underway for training. I believe now or this year there is more funding available so perhaps we will see less accidents. Hopefully None!

Training & funding are esp. lacking, agreed. But, this is ALWAYS going on - even in the middle of the Vietnam War lack of funding for of all things "spare parts" was always a factor. I remember meeting several of the KITTY HAWK aviation mechanics on the beach and they constantly complained of having to cannibalize parts from one of their planes to keep others flying. What a way to run an organization!!! Even during the middle of ongoing hostilities!! The other part of the equation is the ever present egoism of the officer corps who think they are never wrong. I saw this constantly during my tenure on 4 different ships. The arrogance of their attitude towards anyone below them is almost as bad as the arrogance of Congress - they certainly compliment each other. While this statement is not a universal indictment of the Navy Brass et al, it IS and was a most visible symptom of ongoing problems within the service. Once again, my opinion...based on experience.

[Albany Rifles]

BM9 wrote:

Training & funding are esp. lacking, agreed. But, this is ALWAYS going on - even in the middle of the Vietnam War lack of funding for of all things "spare parts" was always a factor. I remember meeting several of the KITTY HAWK aviation mechanics on the beach and they constantly complained of having to cannibalize parts from one of their planes to keep others flying. What a way to run an organization!!! Even during the middle of ongoing hostilities!! The other part of the equation is the ever present egoism of the officer corps who think they are never wrong. I saw this constantly during my tenure on 4 different ships. The arrogance of their attitude towards anyone below them is almost as bad as the arrogance of Congress - they certainly compliment each other. While this statement is not a universal indictment of the Navy Brass et al, it IS and was a most visible symptom of ongoing problems within the service. Once again, my opinion...based on experience.

I always said as an Army officer that one of the knocks we had on the Navy was that we as officers in the Army at least wore the same uniform as our Soldiers. Couldn't say the same for the Navy.

It seemed to be an historical problem. My Dad would complain of the same divide in WW 2. And he used to give his older brother and FIL, both of whom were Mustangs, massive crap about being officers. He joked that he would disown me if I ever became a Navy Officer....though he busted his ass to try to help get into the Naval Academy (I thought about being a Marine Officer).

As with most things in the service, we have budgets which are out of whack with needs. New shiny things bring jobs to Congressional districts. But increased money for manpower, training & fuel aren't as easy to show when back in the home district. Can't pay for a military and have massive tax cuts.