Destroyers - Fletcher Class

[tbm3fan]

I believe I have caused some confusion, perhaps the following will clarify some of it. All riveted "butt joints" in any assembly, a building, a ship, a boiler, a air tank for instance-- -where two riveted plates are joined on the same plane (where two plates are being joined edge to edge) require a "butt strap", either a single "butt strap"on one face, or a double with a butt strap on the outside and inside face of the same joint. In some places it may be called a " cover plate" or strap. The butt strap brings strength to the joint in question. Double "butt strap" is commonly found in riveted pressure vessels, where greater pressure is present, which requires greater strength, such as older boilers, steam locomotives for example. Where two plates are joined that require a "sheer face" on one side then the "butt strap" is on the opposite face. It appears from Bilge Pumps's highly detailed images of the Kidd that the "side shell", (vertical face of the hull) is lap jointed horizontally and vertically in some areas and other areas they used a "butt strap" some vertical lap joints. Some of the lap joints extend into the "boot toping" (the black band just above the red underwater hull. From the turn of the keel all the way aft, and as far as the image shows of the "underwater hull" all vertical joints have the butt strap on the inside of the hull presenting a sheer face on the underwater hull allowing the ship to glide the water, minimizing resistance to the forward motion of the ship. In the area of the boot topping such a lot the hull there by presenting a "sheer face" to the water. this lowers the resistance of the hull as she glides through the water. On the vertical "side shell" a sheer face is not required, hence visible but straps and lap joints. (joint where one plate is extended over its neighbor an riveted)
The advent, acceptance and refinement of welding eliminated the need for butt straps, and lap joints in general, as the two plates to be joined were butt welded. Depending on the joint type, strength required, and type of steel in the plates, sometimes a backing strip is used in the root pass of the weld.
Great note ! I am finely able to post images...however I have a learning curve as to how. I have a section drawing of the Kidd booklet of general plans, updated 1963, that clearly show the lapped longitudinal joints of the hull plating, which I shall provide as soon as I figure out how. For now I hope the explanation clears up some confusion. Anyone who wishes to add or subtract from this please chime in. Accurate information for anyone is key to credibility. Mistakes need to be corrected especially mine! Thanks

So is this a butt strap?

[bbvet]

TBM3fan - Yes, looks like a horizontal deck strap.

BilgePump - I've sent you a PM re. the Measure 22 item.

Hank

[Boilermaker9]

Yes bevel is correct the photo is a butt strap. A Note: the distance between the rivets is uniform for 360 degrees surrounding each rivet except in the very center of the butt strap where the two plate edges meet underneath. The distance between 2 opposing plate edge rivets is double due to the plate edge underneath the butt strap. Engineers figure out the placement and material of the rivets as required for the installation. They use Codes from American Society of Naval Engineers and Society of Mechanical Engineers and more recently recently American Bureau of Shipping, which the Navy follows in design and construction and repair, under the umbrella of NAVSEA.

Lastly; Does anyone know where to find info on posting pictures that a layman such as myself can understand, any help would be most appreciated. Thanks

[blidgepump]

I so want to have this....

https://www.facebook.com/Windsorsub/...group_activity

Okay.... this is great! Video of a scratch built 1/48 scale DD-449 Nicholas....

The modelers following this thread will hopefully provide some thoughts on the Fletcher - DD model.
The link is a Facebook posting of a fantastic DD with several moving parts.

I so want this for my birthday!

[blidgepump]

Hank,

When I get near a friendly PC I'll respond.

[Ken_NJ]

I saw that post on FB the other day. Would like to know the mechanics of the guns/director movement on that model.

[Boilermaker9]

It is a great model!

[Cruiser]

That is awesome!

In the comments, he included a video of his fleet! Several subs and surface ships. All underway, some making pretty good speed.

[Builder 2010]

Terrific Model! Oh my... what you can do in 1:48! I wonder how much $$$ he invested in it?

[bbvet]

Yea, that's a really fantastic model - he did a great job on it. Probably more $$$ than one cares to admit. I know the total on my future FLETCHER class DD is beginning to add up - and it's still in the box!

[blidgepump]

Black tipped stacks...

Yea, that's a really fantastic model - he did a great job on it. Probably more $$$ than one cares to admit. I know the total on my future FLETCHER class DD is beginning to add up - and it's still in the box!

It is interesting that he selected to paint the top of the stacks blacks if it was a to be a WW-II paint scheme.
Which brings another question the modelers viewing this thread may know from prior research ...
Why were the tops of the stacks painted? To masked the burnt Navy Crude residue ?

[bbvet]

My guess (and this is a guess, no actual documentation to back it up) is that your comment is essentially the correct answer. The black stack cap was std. throughout the Navy between the wars and even in the 1910s-20s. After WWII, the black paint scheme was extended to all portions of the masts above the bottom of the stack cap. This included all masts, yardarms, RADAR, and any equipment located on those items. Only since the 1990's have I seen the modern destroyer masts painted in the same gray as the rest of the ship (DDG-51 Class, as an example) - and that depends on the date of the photo). During the '60s, all the U.S. warships that I can recall seeing had this (black above the btm of the stack cap) paint scheme.

[FlankDestroyer]

NSFO or black oil was pretty dirty. We used to "blow tubes" and get rid of soot every four hours. Fuels, Navy distillate, since the early 1970s are a lot cleaner burning which greatly reduced ash/dirt aloft.

[Boilermaker9]

I shall write this from memory as I do not have access the appropriate documentation, but I believe FlankDestroyer has something. The "watch cap," some sailors called them "dunce caps," on the stack and everything above that level, to include masts, radars etc was painted dull black after the war, as during the war the ships were painted to blend in with their surroundings. One can see the ring of soot outlining the top of the stacks in war period photos and the stack grey. As stated above after the war they started painting the "watch caps" because of the soot from blowing tubes or not getting the forced draft blowers wound up in concert with the fuel which created something more than an "economy haze." That soot coated the upper areas of the ship, tops of the stack etc. which was very hard and time consuming to wash off and with the advent of sensitive electronics up on the masts it became necessary to paint everything black to protect the electronic arrays. Mid 70's ushered in the fuel conversion to NDF76 which burned clean and the "watch caps" began to appear with a shiny coating to show how clean they were, some ships even painted what they could on the mast shine black. However the electronics dictated what shade of black they could use the masts since the electronic arrays were very sensitive to the corrosive effects of the soot. Soot and moisture formed sulfuric acid which reaked havoc with that stuff.
In the late 1950's, through the 70s pneumatic powered automation became prominent, when the Navy adopted the D type boiler, which lent itself to automation. With that there was better control of combustion, as it took the human element out of the equation, and all stacks began to appear with "watch caps" with most most glittering in the sunshine.
That said all the M type Boilers were still hand fired right up up to the ships disposal, as the M type boiler did not lend itself to automation, because it had 2 furnaces with controlled superheat.
All ships had a blue print that actually dictated what type of paint and what color goes where called a "Paint Schedule." located in the Ships Plan Index. By the way one could walk down the pier and look at the ships stacks and tell which were underway recently and which were tied to the pier by the sheen of the Watch Cap!
The Navy is currently on an all grey schedule and have been for about 20 yrs or so. The "Watch Cap" fades into the annals of history but I will say those "Watch Caps" made for some stunning looking ships!
Do not know why....perhaps it is one size fits all as a cost saving measure I do not know.
However I miss the Watch Caps they were very distinguishing....a class act!

[Boilermaker9]

It is interesting that he selected to paint the top of the stacks blacks if it was a to be a WW-II paint scheme.
Which brings another question the modelers viewing this thread may know from prior research ...
Why were the tops of the stacks painted? To masked the burnt Navy Crude residue ?

That is one gorgeous model perhaps modeling the 50s?