The Shkval: awesome new torpedo

[gf0012-aust]

So bottom line is that the Shkval is useless. And cativating weapons in general if we used the lack of a production weapon for the USN as an example.

Just wanting to get the thread back on track...

unless there has been a "requirements brain fart" - no weapon is useless.

the point being made is that its not the wonder weapon that is often promoted in the press.

cavitating weapons have not been abandoned by the USN at all (if production visibility is used as the measurement of employment success). the USN has achieved some pretty speccy outcomes with cav weapons - its just that they also don't need to go out and advertise everything they do. Ditto for the french navy who have also not been asleep at the wheel on cav weapons.

[omon]

found this

[Defcon 6]

unless there has been a "requirements brain fart" - no weapon is useless.

the point being made is that its not the wonder weapon that is often promoted in the press.

cavitating weapons have not been abandoned by the USN at all (if production visibility is used as the measurement of employment success). the USN has achieved some pretty speccy outcomes with cav weapons - its just that they also don't need to go out and advertise everything they do. Ditto for the french navy who have also not been asleep at the wheel on cav weapons.

USN couldn't even produce the Mk. 50 in significant quantities. Last thing I read they were trying to offset production and expense problems with the Mk. 54 hybrid torpedo.

as for the cav weapons,

I guess the last word on the USN's cav weapons might go something like, "lost but not forgotten". :)

[omon]

imo, we are missing something, shkval has no guiance sys, week warhead,noisy as hell, i'm thinking may be it wasn't meant to have all that stuff, probably it was made for a different reason, could it be used as underwater canon, torpedo tube is the barrel and shkval is a round, shoot 3 or 4 of them and it's like burst, at that speed it's gonna hurt even if some miss

[avon1944]

RE: The Shkval: awesome new torpedo

i'm thinking may be it wasn't meant to have all that stuff, probably it was made for a different reason

During the Cold War USN and UK SSN's would sneak into Soviet bastions that they had for their SSBM's, get within 2,000 meters and 'ping' the SSBM with their active sonar. Then sneak away with the Soviet SSN's not being able to detect the NATO intruder.
In a war an NATO SSN getting that close to a Soviet SSBM, firing a Mk-48 or Spearfish torpedos the Soviet SSBM would have no chance of escape. Plus the NATO sub would get away.
The Shkval would force NATO SSNs to stay back at least 10,000 meters.

Adrian

[omon]

that makes sence,

[gf0012-aust]

The Shkval would force NATO SSNs to stay back at least 10,000 meters.

thats only of limited value. the Skval is basically a boresight weapon with limited manouvre. that means that they have a limited aspect to even commence a shoot from. add in the factor of distance to target, speed (and hence limited time to adjust course) and a limited aspect and you have a devalued weapon. Excellent for boresight shots on slow or static targets - not much chop if the base variables change.

there are far more useful cavitation weapons that can be developed outside of high speed limited aspect torpedoes.

[Defcon 6]

devalued=useless.

it's all the same thing.

^_^

[canoe]

Whats the possibility of that technoligy being built into a 2 stage torpedo?

First stage conventional torpedo system bringing the second stage within range and lines it up for a proper firing solution then releases the rocket powered second stage at the target?

[gf0012-aust]

Whats the possibility of that technoligy being built into a 2 stage torpedo?

First stage conventional torpedo system bringing the second stage within range and lines it up for a proper firing solution then releases the rocket powered second stage at the target?

I can't see it working. You'd basically have to sabot the cavitator at the tertiary stage - and then newtons law of motion kicks in. there would be insufficient mass to counteract the effects of "ejection".

It would be all over the shop like a dogs breakfast IMV.

[Garry]

If you are so concerned about "Shkval" rande, and noise of the russian subs - why don't you focus on RPK-7 (SS-N-16) and RPK-2 (SS-N-15)? They are still in the inventory, and execute the same anti-sub function much more effective than "Shkval", IMO.

Hi Lurker, interesting reading about RPK-7 and 2. What is a NATO comparable weapon?

[canoe]

Hi Lurker, interesting reading about RPK-7 and 2. What is a NATO comparable weapon?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...itions/vla.htm

As a general rule of thumb the U.S doesn't use nuclear weapons in the anti-ship/sub role anymore however. Conventional weapons are preferred to avoid the political fallout.

I'm sure they probably still have some nuclear toys sitting in long term storage somewhere though.

[Dreadnought]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...itions/vla.htm

As a general rule of thumb the U.S doesn't use nuclear weapons in the anti-ship/sub role anymore however. Conventional weapons are preferred to avoid the political fallout.

I'm sure they probably still have some nuclear toys sitting in long term storage somewhere though.

You would be surprised at whats still on the shelf from days past. All still very usable mind you.;)

[Garry]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...itions/vla.htm

As a general rule of thumb the U.S doesn't use nuclear weapons in the anti-ship/sub role anymore however. Conventional weapons are preferred to avoid the political fallout.

I'm sure they probably still have some nuclear toys sitting in long term storage somewhere though.

Hi Canoe, it seems to me that these are bit different - ASROC is launched by surface ships while RPK-7 is launched by submarines from torgedo hatches. Do I understand things correctly?

[canoe]

Hi Canoe, it seems to me that these are bit different - ASROC is launched by surface ships while RPK-7 is launched by submarines from torgedo hatches. Do I understand things correctly?

There was a Mk-45 ASTOR I beleive though you'd have to be completely out of your mind to use it as it would probably take out both the enemy and the friendly sub at the same time.