World's Most Advanced War Ship

[Dreadnought]

The T45 is an area air defense destroyer. DDX is strike/ASW like the sprucans.

hmmmm interesting.

[BenRoethig]

If it wasn't for the oversized mast structure it'd be more attractive, but if it improves combat capability then I guess it's ok. I question wheter or not these things are really the equal of a DDG-51 or Japanese Kongo though.

Would be pretty nice if they didn't go stingy on the VLS cells and had gone for an all A70 or MK41 strike layout.

[Bill]

LOL dont make me laugh about RAM....!!!

Do u know why or what the type 45 destroy was built for...????

Have you actually read up on PAMS..???
It makes RAM look like 3rd world technology...!!!!! 'world's most modern ship self-defense weapon.'...what aload of crock....it was..it aint now..!!

Type 45 does not need the RAM system cause of PAMS.!


General Characteristics - RAM System (RIM-116A Mod. 0,1)
Primary Function: Surface-to-Air-Missile
Contractor: Hughes Missile Systems Company and RAM Systems Germany
Diameter of Missile: 5 inch (12.7 cm)
Length of Missile: 9.18 feet (2.8 meters)
Speed of Missile: 2+ Mach
Range: approx. 11 miles
Cost: Unit cost Block 0: $273,000
Unit cost Block 1: $444,000
Launcher: MK-43 (Standard) or modified MK-29

PAMMS:-
Characteristics of ASTER 15 ,
Mass 310 kg, Length 4.2 m ,Diameter 0.18 m
Propulsion solid propellant, two stage,
Terminal velocity:-Mach 3
Manoeuvrability:- > 50 g
Guidance updata link and active radar seeker in final phase
Altitude of interception:- 10 km
Range In excess of 30 km
--------------------------------------------------
Characteristics of ASTER 30
Mass 450 kg
Length 4.9 m
Diameter 0.18 m
Propulsion solid propellant, two stage,
Terminal velocity:- Mach 4.5
Manoeuvrability > 50 g
Guidance updata link and active radar seeker in final phase
Altitude of interception 20 km
Range In excess of 100 km
-----------------------------------------------------

ASTER 15 & 30 - PAAMS (Principal Anti-Air Missile System), the only system able to integrate three operational naval missions: self-defence, local area defence of nearby vessels and fleet area defence.
The Aster missile carries an inertial computer with datalink, an active J-band Doppler radar seeker and 15kg warhead. The speed of Aster 30 is Mach 4, and range is over 80km. The missile has manoeuvrability of up to 62g, achieved through the use of the EADS Aerospatiale PIF/PAF guidance system.
The Aster missiles were designed from the outset to intercept sea-skimming missiles and coupled with the SYLVER launcher, PAAMS can launch 8 missiles in 10 seconds. This system provides 360 ° defence and an all weather capability. It also features an extremely quick response time, a high firing rate (8 missiles within 10 seconds), and the capability to engage up to 12 targets simultaneously. The main equipment is designed with a high built-in test capability, and requires limited logistics.

High effectiveness
-----------------------
The design drivers of this system were to overcome the threat posed by Anti-Radiation Missiles, including highly manoeuvring (including dog-leg manoeuvres), stealthy, lately discriminated and unmasked targets. This capability relies on the short reaction time of the Firing Control Unit, the high speed of the Aster weapons (respectively Mach 3+ and Mach 4.5) and their innovative control mode which provides the backbone of a true Hit-To-Kill performance. Although it is designed as a Hit-To-Kill missile, the Aster kill vehicle has a blast fragmentation warhead that is efficient against the most hardened targets within a large intercept volume


Outstanding manoeuvrability and unequalled agility
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Aster kill vehicle is small and lightweight, enabling it to defeat the new generation of threat, especially highly manoeuvring targets. It is able to provide a high level of manoeuvrability through strong aerodynamic control (`PAF’) and the implementation of pyrotechnic control (`PIF’) that acts at its centre of gravity. This additional control device also acts as a compensator for the aerodynamic control response time and provides lateral acceleration without the need to generate an angle of attack. This enables the system to achieve the shortest response time to a control order, offering unequalled agility, the predominant characteristic of an anti-missile missile. This mixed control has proven its outstanding performance, especially at high altitude where air density is low. As a consequence of this concept, the Aster weapon is a two-stage missile currently with two possible booster sizes.

Guidance accuracy
-----------------------
The Aster missile computes the predicted intercept time according to the target and environmental data it receives during the launch sequence. From the missile flyout and up to the point at which the active RF seeker switches on, the missile is inertially guided, receiving periodic target position and environment updates from the Firing Control Unit via the up-link. This data allows the missile to update its own computations continuously as well as its optimum trajectory towards seeker switch-on and intercept and the predicted intercept time. As soon as the seeker has switched on and achieved target lock, the missile can home onto the target. The risk of acquiring the wrong target is avoided by means of sophisticated functions within the seeker and the on board computer. Just before intercept and as determined by the on board computer, the pyrotechnic ‘PIF’ is initiated, operating in conjunction with the aerodynamic control, the ‘PAF’ to significantly reduce the predicted missile/target miss-distance, to the point of achieving a direct hit.

I hate to point this out, but RAM is an extremely capable system in it's own right, and fills a DIFFERENT role than the Aster30 based PAAMS system of the T45 DDG.

[Bill]

Hmmm, seems the British have stopped giving away their best toys to the Americans.

The US could've bought the PAAMS system if they wanted to , they still could. Aster is not compatible with the Mk41 VLS nor can it be quad packed, so the US had no interest.

[Defcon 6]

SeaRAM has a 95% success rate. It's never been anything to laugh at.

[Bill]

SeaRAM has a 95% success rate. It's never been anything to laugh at.

It's also fully automated and fire and forget.

[leolover]

can type 45 use ESSM-quadpacks instead of aster, or could aster 15 substitue aster-30 in a similar system?

if not, i would say that might be a disadvantage. the active seeker of the aster is surely a great thing, but i think the ESSM could do the job of the aster-15.

having 4 ESSM as substitue for one SM-2 is in my eyes a damn good thing for short ranges, and with RAMs as "backup" i would feel pretty safe

ps: how could the aster-30 be guided OTH? even the sampson-radar shouldn´t be able to look over the horizon. as i know the missile requires updates before the active seeker could lock on. could a AEW/AWACS provide such updates?

[BenRoethig]

In theory, it doesn't matter if a ship is using Sylver or Mk41. The weapons could fit in either. We aren't in a hurry to have european weapons integrated into MK41, and vise versa for Svlver. As for the quadpacks, MBDA is said to be working on a multi-pack for VL mica.

[Bill]

In theory, it doesn't matter if a ship is using Sylver or Mk41. The weapons could fit in either. We aren't in a hurry to have european weapons integrated into MK41, and vise versa for Svlver. As for the quadpacks, MBDA is said to be working on a multi-pack for VL mica.

It is my understanding that Aster is not compatible with Mk41, which is why the T45s had to go with Sylver, hence losing the ability to embark VLS TLAMs or Harpoons.

[Dreadnought]

I just want to get a good look at her upclose. And see what is speculation and what is actually shipped on her.

[BenRoethig]

It is my understanding that Aster is not compatible with Mk41, which is why the T45s had to go with Sylver, hence losing the ability to embark VLS TLAMs or Harpoons.

It's more a question of software than anything. The Brits wanted to go the european route and went with the french made system.

[dave angel]

i went to see HMS Daring launch this morning, odd looking ship, but with nice lines that aren't really done justice in the photos and artist impressions.

incidentally i went to university with one of the lads designing the Sampson radar, clever bloke, but he did manage to fuse a student hall of residence while attempting to fix a toaster...

[gunnut]

It's more a question of software than anything. The Brits wanted to go the european route and go with the french made system.

That's one very interesting thing I noticed about the RN. They like their own missiles. Sea Slug, Sea Cat, Sea Dart, and Sea Wolf are all used on British warships (and their export models of course) but by no one else in the world. I suppose they want to be independent, but the cost must be very high to deploy those systems.

From what I understand, the Daring class will carry 48 Aster 30 missiles. Why is it that a 7000t ship carries only 48 missiles? American ships carry far more. Modified Spruances have 61 launch cells. Burke IIAs have 112 cells. Ticos have 128 cells. Is it the nature of their mission? But even if Darings are tasked with air defense only, wouldn't it be better to have more missiles? Cost and weight permitting of course.

[gunnut]

i went to see HMS Daring launch this morning, odd looking ship, but with nice lines that aren't really done justice in the photos and artist impressions.

incidentally i went to university with one of the lads designing the Sampson radar, clever bloke, but he did manage to fuse a student hall of residence while attempting to fix a toaster...

You don't happen to have pictures, do you?

[Simullacrum]

Actually from what I have read the origins of Harrier go back to the French first (Michel Wibult) and then after several trials/transactions onto Bristol (engines) and then on to Hawker to make the bodies. So actually Bristol took the engine design a step forward from Wilbult ideas but did not originate the design as Wilbult did. Hawker provided the body and an updated Pegasus engine to stabilize it. So in essence according to what i read the Brits used a design already in the works, added a body and a stronger engine and called it their own. This is only one theory I provided a link below.


Again going back to this logic of thinking..... then most if but not all militry things the yanks have ever produced is neither original in desigin or in concept...... going back from rockets/misiles to stealth planes....all these conceptional ideas and some in production were from NAZI germany from world war 2.....!!!! Alot of your technolgy stems from european ideas and conceps..!! From Tanks, Missiles, Cruiser, Destroyers, Submarines, Air craft carriers, Hand Grenades, sateliets, RADAR...to the jet engines all of which are European ideas and inventions..!!
If it had not been for the influx of german/European scientist after the world war would America be at its militry/technological height it is at now...?? That no one will ever know..!! ;)

AS for the RAM system..dont get me wrong I am not slating it as ****... it is a cable system...but just infurates me when people claim 'it is the worlds best' when soemthing new is out and is clearly of better qaulity and functionality...!! PAMMS can not only be used against Aicraft but can be used for intercepting low flying misiles as well [its jaust a matter of software]..!! And on stats the Aster can out-perform, Out-think and out-manouver the RAM system..! Trials have been very succesfull to..!!

U stick with RAM...ill stick with PAMS and a goalkeeper with the addition of sea dart..!!! lol