A new era is upon us.

[bigross86]

Amazing pic, especially the contrails

[hello]

Amazing pic, especially the contrails

Those are not contrails; the F-22 does not leave contrails, it's stealth. Those are vapor from the wingtips. ;)
Why doesn't anyone call the raptor F/A-22 around here cause that is its real designation, not F-22.

[ASG]

The EF-2000 is not in the F-22s class. Even the plane's makers admit that.

Nothing is in the F-22s class.

Indeed.

Behold!! Here comes the Raptor...!!

[BenRoethig]

It is going to be the last great manned fighter. The next round of fighters will most likely be computer controlled

Computers can only do what they're programed to, not make on site judgement calls. Pilots can. If computers ever get to the point where they can think, god help us.

[highsea]

...They should have two more by now.

Hey, whaddya know! ;)

Two more Raptors arrive at Langley

6/10/2005 - LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. -- Lt. Col. Wade Tolliver delivers the second permanent F/A-22 Raptor here June 8. Shortly after, Maj. Charles Corcoran delivered the base's third Raptor. Colonel Tolliver is the 27th Fighter Squadron director of operations, and Major Corcoran is a pilot with the squadron.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123010739

[-{SpoonmaN}-]

The EF-2000 is not in the F-22s class. Even the plane's makers admit that.

Nothing is in the F-22s class.

True but there's nothing near it's price tag as well.

[Bill]

Now see, that's not true.

The EF2000 costs almost as much, and the MV-22 of all things does too.

[highsea]

Hell, a new F-15E costs almost as much. And your right, the V-22 is right up there too. God, I worked on the predecessor, the Bell XV-15 back in the early 80's. Lol, now you know why it took so damn long...

[Bill]

LOL, it has highseas disease?

110 million a pop is the current figure bandied about for the MV-22.

I can't believe that no one just cancells it. Oh wait, the DoD did, Congress said 'nope'.

Nice eh?

[BenRoethig]

What's keeping the V-22 alive is its theoretical potential. It will outrun comparable medium lift helicopters by a 2:1 margin. Unfortunately, it's a very complex design which has some severe reliability issues. The Osprey should be kept as an experimental project. There should be a competition between the US101 and H-92 for the next Marine medium lift helicopter.

As for the F-22, it is a proven design that takes conventional aircraft to the cleaners. I think total air dominance is worth the price.

[Bill]

The only thing that keeps the Osprey alive is one Senator Arlen Spector, senior senator from the great state of Pa.

DoD already cancelled Osprey once, only to see Specter reinstate it(with help from his pals in congress). The DoD apparently learnt it's lesson, and has been spending bucketfulls of good cash after bad on this flying roach.

[magic-spaceship]

The only thing that keeps the Osprey alive is one Senator Arlen Spector, senior senator from the great state of Pa.

DoD already cancelled Osprey once, only to see Specter reinstate it(with help from his pals in congress). The DoD apparently learnt it's lesson, and has been spending bucketfulls of good cash after bad on this flying roach.

man I cant tell if you like the V22 or not - lol.

The thing about the raptor that impresses me the most - is not its ability to dominate airspace - but its stealth ability combined with signt recon role combined with super cruise. That to me puts it in a whole other class by its self. Somebody was on the ball when they concieved that idea.

[highsea]

...LOL, it has highseas disease?

I am usually insanely defensive about anything I have worked on, but I have to admit to being ambivalent about the MV-22. I just wonder if the Pentagon is going to be willing to toss such a pricey piece of hardware in the direct line of fire. I do think it has great potential as a SAR platform, though.

Anyway, back to the topic.

Lockheed wins round over planes
House votes to continue funding C-130J, F/A-22

By BOB KEMPER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/22/05

Washington — The House has approved a defense budget that would keep alive the once-endangered C-130J military cargo plane and F/A-22 fighter jet built by Lockheed Martin in Marietta.

The vote, taken late Monday, would restore funding for two planes that had been targeted by the Pentagon for elimination. The measure also includes funding for a study of whether the F/A-22 Raptor should continue in production beyond 2009, the termination date for Lockheed's current contract.

The Senate still needs to act on its own version of the defense bill. Georgia lawmakers have expressed confidence that the measure will clear both chambers.

The Pentagon proposed killing the C-130J program at the end of next year. But it reversed course last month after learning it would cost $1.6 billion in penalties to terminate the multiyear contract early, wiping out any savings gained by canceling the plane.

The proposed defense budget would restore funding for 13 of the Hercules cargo planes — nine for the Air Force and four for the Navy.

"I'm relieved full funding for the C-130J program was included in the legislation," said Rep. Phil Gingrey, a Republican from Marietta whose district includes the Lockheed plant. "The Georgia delegation fought hard for this aircraft and it paid off."

The measure also restores funding for 25 Raptor fighter jets, which the Air Force called its top priority but Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld wanted to cancel.

Pentagon officials and a variety of taxpayer watchdog groups have criticized the Raptor, which was designed during the Cold War, as an overly expensive replacement for the Air Force's aging fighter jets.

The same groups have targeted the venerable C-130J, which they said was so plagued with design problems that it has still not been used in a combat situation.

Georgia lawmakers, however, fended off such criticisms and were able over the last six months to round up substantial support for both planes on Capitol Hill, forcing the Pentagon to back down.

"I, along with the entire Georgia delegation, will continue to work tirelessly to promote and protect these valuable programs," said Rep. Tom Price, a Republican from Roswell whose district is home to many Lockheed employees.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...atdefense.html

This puts the funding back to the previous level and gives us another year to decide whether to extend past 2009.

[Bill]

"I am usually insanely defensive about anything I have worked on, but I have to admit to being ambivalent about the MV-22."

I was an Osprey supporter for years. But when i examined the level of assinine behaviour associated with the program by all involved, let alone the unit costs, i came to the inescapable conclusion that the best bet is to cancel it yesterday.

[hello]

I haven't been able to post for about 12-14 days cause my internet server was dead.

It seems that over the time this F/A-22 thread has become an MV-22 thread.