Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[anil]

@citanon

What makes you think that india would accept a real f35 offer? Or even a f22 offer?

India cannot use them against pakistan and if I understand geopolitics better, india cannot use them against china either.

Perhaps indian politicians will buy 6-8 for the experience but indias actual fighter strength will consist of local and from states not under the influence of the US geopolitics. It is practical.

[citanon]

@citanon

What makes you think that india would accept a real f35 offer? Or even a f22 offer?

I don't know what Indian response would be to a real offer. I just know that there is currently no real offer and I surmise there will not be one in the foreseeable future.

[Oracle]

You did an oxymoron here

Those sales do not change the strategic balance, if you even know what the term actually means :)

You're not the first IT nerd to drop down in a military forum claiming to know it all getting red when seniors explain the basics to you.

LMAO! Putin bot, did it hurt? Oh! And there are huge differences between IT and a Fighter jet, guess you didn't know that. Hmmmm!

Do you have a source for this? To my knowledge no version of the F35 has ever been offered to India. F18s and F16s have been offered.

My Googling indicates that Lockheed was authorized to give a presentation on the F35 to India should India indicate interest. This was then reported, wrongly, in various press articles as the US indicated that it would be willing to sell -> US offered -> US eager to sell. Then there was a flurry of articles in the Indian press about various officials denying F35 would meet Indian requirements, which was then distorted into: US offered to sell and India refused.

All of the above are wrong if you dig a bit deeper. The only thing the US government did was authorize Lockheed to give a Power Point presentation, which Lockheed did. However, this is just the very beginnings of a non-committal discussion with huge hurdles in terms of obtaining actual authorization for even a tentative offer.

My impression is based on this 2010 report - Lockheed to offer fifth generation F-35 fighters to Navy
You might be correct though.

[Oracle]

Stitch/citanon,

Also, check this out - US should boost Indian Navy's combat power: US think tank
India and the F-35
US-India Collaboration on Aircraft Carriers: A Good Idea?

[Oracle]

Rafale deal: France says no to offset, yes to 'Make in India'

[Gun Grape]

In response to "The evil Americans wont give us source codes"

Are you aware that the US Military doesn't get that either? One of the reasons that we have civilian tech reps deploy with us. There are some parts of planes that can only be worked on by company reps. Proprietary information that military mechanics are not allowed near.

[Stitch]

In response to "The evil Americans wont give us source codes"

Are you aware that the US Military doesn't get that either? One of the reasons that we have civilian tech reps deploy with us. There are some parts of planes that can only be worked on by company reps. Proprietary information that military mechanics are not allowed near.

FYI: Think I mentioned this a few posts back (#408): http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...l=1#post994359

[Double Edge]

So here we are, in 2016, MMRCA less & STILL Rafale less :@

Wanted to buy 36 in ready to fly condition but could not agree on price.

Modi came up with this idea on his trip to France over six months ago. Nothing.

Hollande came over as chief guest for republic day recently. Still nothing.

yet i somehow feel there will be rafales in the IAF one day.

This circus began in 2007.

[jlvfr]

Contracts with India: long wait is long...

[Stitch]

I can't help but think that Modi/Indian Gov't is dragging his (their?) feet so that the US somehow, eventually, ends up getting the contract. I've always believed, from the get-go, that the F-18 E/F/G would be the best airframe for the Indians; yes, I know it's just basically an F-18C/D on steroids, and, yes, it does still have range issues but, overall, I still think it's the best fit for the needs and wants of the IAF.

If only the US Gov't could get over that whole ToT thing . . .

[Double Edge]

I can't help but think that Modi/Indian Gov't is dragging his (their?) feet so that the US somehow, eventually, ends up getting the contract. I've always believed, from the get-go, that the F-18 E/F/G would be the best airframe for the Indians; yes, I know it's just basically an F-18C/D on steroids, and, yes, it does still have range issues but, overall, I still think it's the best fit for the needs and wants of the IAF.

If only the US Gov't could get over that whole ToT thing . . .

[ATTACH]40919[/ATTACH]

Exactly, its expensive because of the offsets and this is ToT. They won't be able to pull this off without offsets but the asking price is too high. Or that's what i can gather. The whole thing is so damn opaque might as well read tea leaves.

A generous way of putting this is Modi is hard balling the French. Give it some time, they will eventually agree. But as we find out the longer things take the more expensive it all becomes.

Who is the winner in this case ? the russians.

[jlvfr]

I can't help but think that Modi/Indian Gov't is dragging his (their?) feet so that the US somehow, eventually, ends up getting the contract. I've always believed, from the get-go, that the F-18 E/F/G would be the best airframe for the Indians; yes, I know it's just basically an F-18C/D on steroids, and, yes, it does still have range issues but, overall, I still think it's the best fit for the needs and wants of the IAF.

It's not just this program or government. From following this for some years (at an informal level), I've seen almost every miltary program in India of the last 20-30 years drag it's feet, domistic or purchase...

[Stitch]

It's not just this program or government. From following this for some years (at an informal level), I've seen almost every miltary program in India of the last 20-30 years drag it's feet, domistic or purchase...

While trolling the net, I found this; so, maybe there's still hope for Boeing and the F-18E/F/G?

Are Boeing and India About to Open the Door on a Possible F/A-18 Super Hornet Deal?

[anil]

All these years have given more time to people in the govt to sober up

“The government would find it extremely difficult to justify that price. For the cost of a Rafale, the Indian Air Force (IAF) could buy 4-5 Sukhoi-30MKI, or 10 Tejas light fighters”, points out Bharat Karnad of the Centre for Policy Research, who has been critical of the MMRCA procurement.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2016/...ties-over.html

[anil]

I can't help but think that Modi/Indian Gov't is dragging his (their?) feet

No it is a national policy