Rafale Wins MMRCA Bid

[jlvfr]

Another wonderful achievement by HAL.......

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/47007287.cms

Didn't even know India had a 3-tier system... what's more common?

[Double Edge]

I am all for corruption if things get done on the field. People want bribe, I'll give them bribe, but then I'd want my work to get done, on time. But from experience, things are different. Even paying a bribe doesn't get things done on time.

Why do you assume a bribe has occurred ?

Instead of floating tenders, the GoI could just ask the Armed Forces about their needs, and then go ahead and do a govt-to-govt deal. Saves a lot of time and heartburn.

because then people will start screaming a bribe must have occurred. I'm not sure but wasn't Bofors done the way you suggest ?

The whole point of tendering was it would be open and transparent and we would allow companies from all over to present their product. How fast can one decide on something like this anyway. We were under no pressure to buy from anyone. We had choice.

All this crap about bribe has just one objective as far as i'm concerned. To stick as many obstacles in the way of purchase of any high price items as possible !

[Oracle]

Why do you assume a bribe has occurred ?

I'm not assuming anything in this case (Rafale deal), nor in the case of defense purchases from countries such as US (lobbying is legal = legal bribe) or Israel. I was pointing at Russia, obviously you didn't get that. Why in hell would the GoI want to deal with the Russians for PAKFA and/or other deals after years of ripping off? Surely someone gains something. Agree or not, corruption is embedded like second skin within the political and bureaucratic circles.

because then people will start screaming a bribe must have occurred. I'm not sure but wasn't Bofors done the way you suggest ?

IIRC, Bofors won the bid to supply those howitzers. And to win the bid, kickbacks were paid.

Now, hold on, even considering Rafale won the MMRCA, this deal (36 Rafale jets) is a govt-to-govt one. How come nobody raised the flag of corruption? Because there probably isn't any. I've used the word probably because I just don't know and I'm also not saying it happened.

The whole point of tendering was it would be open and transparent and we would allow companies from all over to present their product. How fast can one decide on something like this anyway. We were under no pressure to buy from anyone. We had choice.

The point of tendering and the whole process (that happened with the Rafale amongst many) smacks of bureaucratic inefficiency to save one's ass incase someone raises a red flag. The GoI did govt-to-govt deals with the US government, why had no one raised any objections then in the past? Your point doesn't stick as open tendering was not followed in those cases.

As about deciding which platform/weapon is stable/better performance/money wise, leave that to the forces. If the Army needs Howitzers, the MoD needs to ask them to list out the best in the world. Request those companies for additional information and field trials. Select one among those based on laid down protocols, and then do a govt-to-govt deal. Oh and put every bit of information of the deal on MoD website.

All this crap about bribe has just one objective as far as i'm concerned. To stick as many obstacles in the way of purchase of any high price items as possible !

Not exactly, since we have bought highly priced products (US items) before. My guess is it's one arms lobby against another.

[bolo121]

Didn't even know India had a 3-tier system... what's more common?

No Idea...I sorta assumed that everybody was on 3 tiers.

[Chunder]

No Idea...I sorta assumed that everybody was on 3 tiers.

*tongue in cheek* No wonder the Pakistanis don't trust you, your fighter plane projects have got pork for everyone!

[Oracle]

Rafale deal may be Congress’s next weapon to target Modi govt

Reduced to 44 seats in the 2014 LS elections, Congress politicians have a lot of time on their hands. Idiots.

[anil]

Both rafale and tejas are 4th gen aircrafts. Money that could have powered the rafale production line will now be used for the tejas production line.

[kuku]

It was bold of modi to take a decision, any decision.
Frankly speaking the ministry of defense needs to be fired and a new institution created just from the best, let go of the rest.
They are doing their best to screw the military beyond repair.

[kuku]

It was bold of modi to take a decision, any decision.

[kuku]

Both rafale and tejas are 4th gen aircrafts. Money that could have powered the rafale production line will now be used for the tejas production line.

Good of modi to take a decision, at least some ones got balls in india.
And Tejas sucks, its a late replacement for mig21 that should loose its reason for existence too soon

[anil]

Good of modi to take a decision, at least some ones got balls in india.

What are you talking about?

Some people think money grows on trees. They think india was going to start one production line each for the tejas, rafale, amca, [url=http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2015/04/for-building-light-fighters-in-india.html]gripen[/ur], fgfa and who knows what else.

Both upa and nda realized that tejas was all we can afford. AK antony knew what he was doing - he prolonged it.

[anil]

Good of modi to take a decision, at least some ones got balls in india.

What are you talking about?

Some people think money grows on trees. They think india was going to start one production line each for the tejas, rafale, amca, gripen, fgfa and who knows what else.

Both upa and nda realized that tejas was all we can afford. AK antony knew what he was doing - he prolonged it.

[kuku]

I am talking about the ability of Modi to take a decision. He took one, instead of the bullshit that was flying around.
People think a lot of things. India had a production line for several planes previously.

You just have to process the tree into paper, and then through the industrial process.

The government has taken the decision, no use arguing over what will happen.

The Tejas is not impressive, its a DRDO and HAL project, these are both very stupid and decadent organisations, i do not trust their abilities to do things more complex than scratching their bald heads. Or coming with out with contracts for external consultants to do their work.

[anil]

Leave manufacturing expertise to the experts.

Every plane is different and has different acquisition and operating costs. It is irrational to operate expensive planes for those roles which can also be performed by light ones. Don't underestimate the tejas because of its bad PR; it is actually better than mig 21. The tejas is the one which will eventually replace and form the bulk of IAF.

Tejas costs - this and this

Tejas is also the most indigenous. We have the most control over its life hence it is politically favourable; a significant point.

[Officer of Engineers]

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